New diagnosis of EMS looking for guidance
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Hi everyone!
I’m currently a long-distance horse mum, with my mare being 300 miles away so she can live 24/7 on a multi-surface track and no grass. I’ll get her case study updated ASAP. potted history: Tartine is PSSM n/P1 and has been in a forage only diet since I bought her 8 years ago. She is now 13 years old. In 2019 we made the move from France to the UK, thought I’m up on the NE coast, and she is in Wales. Although I get regular updates and photos from the yard owner, I haven’t actually seen her for 2 years. in the time since she has moved to Wales her PSSM has really improved, and she hasn’t had any major flares since. Her feet have remained excellent, but she wears scoot boots for longer road hacks, because the tracks she works on are very abrasive. She is currently ridden 3-4 times a week for 1-3 hours up and down forestry tracks in very hilly country. But (and isn’t there always a but?) she has really struggled with her weight, despite being 95% grass free, and muzzled from about April to October to stop her fence surfing as much as possible. Due to a persistent round belly, and seeming inability to lose weight despite dietary measures, she was tested for PPID and EMS yesterday. ACTH was normal (17.5pg/ml), but insulin was high (35.8mIU/L) and she was diagnosed with insulin dysregulation. The current plan is to move her onto a separate part of the track with a couple of friends, reduce the overall size of the communal hay nets, introduce oat straw as a partial hay replacer and slowly increase the intensity of her current exercise. Phew... just as I thought things were going swimmingly... Any advice, or even support would be very much appreciated. thank you! -- Katrina
Mar 2017, Alsace, France Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina,%20Tartine%20and%20Blitz Tartine Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4725 Blitz (non-IR) foot photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=4743&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0
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Hi Katrina, I would definitely have the straw tested. Some straws test higher in sugars and starches than the hay it’s replacing. And, while they’re doing that, they should get the hay tested as well. It sounds like she’s getting lots of exercise and that’s what’s been keeping her insulin low enough to be out of the danger zone. A closed muzzle, if that’s not what she’s already in, would be a big help. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo
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I’ll do my best to update the case history tomorrow, but I don’t have access to MS Word.
and yes, everything is out dated, because since her insulin came back OK in 2017, I haven’t been posting. (updated link to case history) -- Katrina
Mar 2017, Alsace, France Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina,%20Tartine%20and%20Blitz/Tartine%20Case%20History.doc Tartine Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4725 Blitz (non-IR) foot photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=4743&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0
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Katrina, do you have any word processing capabilities? I think there are some open source software that works, such as Apache Open Office and Libre Office. The trick is to find one that will open your previous case history document and allow you to edit. Once you finish it, please convert to pdf so it will be readable by others. Let us know if you need help.
-- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo
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I have updated the case history with all of the tim formation I have at the moment.
Hopefully i have managed everything correctly. -- Katrina
Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina%20and%20Tartine Blitz (non-IR) foot photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=4743&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0
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Sherry Morse
Hi Casey, Would you be able to post any of the more current pictures of her? I'm not surprised to hear that she's IR as she certainly looked it in the pictures that you do have posted and of course the fact that her weight hasn't gone down even with being ridden. At this point it would be best if she was actually fed just the amount of food she needs (to lose weight she'd be on 1.5% of her current weight or 2% of her ideal, whichever is greater. That would mean 20lbs MAX per day. We recommend not using communal feeding when possible as most IR horses don't have an 'off button' and will eat whatever is available to them, which sounds like what is happening with Tartine. Straw can be worse than tested hay so I wouldn't recommend using that as a hay replacement. You can read a bit more about the possible issues with that here: https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/let-them-eat-straw/ Do you know if the hay she's currently eating has been tested and is definitely below 10% ESC + starch?
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Hi Sherry, I’ve added some recent - unrugged - photos of her. It’s not often she has a rug off over winter as keeping warm and mobile has been paramount in keeping her PSSM managed.
Currently, the forward going plan is to have her on part of the track with 2-3 other EMS horses, with lots of small haynets spread around to keep her moving. It isn’t possible to have her completely separate from the herd. During the grass growing seasons, she wears a muzzle as well as using small holed haynets. Her diet is already extremely tight, cereal free etc to manage the PSSM; but she is extremely efficient at eating through her muzzle at whatever is available (browsing on the hedgerows etc) -- Katrina
Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina%20and%20Tartine Tartine Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4725
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Sherry Morse
Hi Katrina, I can't imagine trying to manage a horse from the distance you are so kudos to the yard owner for taking such good care of Tartine for you. I know you said she's being ridden but she does look chunkier than she did in the fall which makes me wonder if she should be muzzled all the time and not just part of the year. You may also want to consider a more restrictive muzzle for her to help cut down on how much she can sneak with it on. https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/best-friend-grazing-muzzle-with-padded-leather-crown-16274 is one of the types that many of our members have had good luck with. Other thoughts would be to see if she can be on a track that has either no access to the fence line or where the vegetation is kept well back from the fence so there's no chance of 'fence surfing' to get extra calories in. We have members who clear an area back at least 3 feet from the fence (and that includes killing grass) to help keep their horses from getting ANYTHING that they shouldn't be eating.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Hi Sherry, I haven’t actually seen the property myself, Covid completely nixed all travel last year once I was in a position to visit :/ ; I’ve uploaded a few photos which show the environment Tartine is currently in.
Tartine hasn’t actually been on grass since Mar 2019, and although my YO is exceptional, she is caring for 21 other horses and ponies, who are mostly in retirement and have various long standing injuries or metabolic problems of their own, so there is a limit to the individual attention/ environmental changes I can reasonably request. I would be devastated if I had to muzzle T 24/7, as it’s taken over a year for her to open up and start to share her personal space with others and engage in mutual grooming sessions. I’m going to get her thyroid checked again at the next free call out day. -- Katrina
Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina%20and%20Tartine Tartine Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4725
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Cindy Giovanetti
Katrina, your photos, your facility and track, and your horse look amazing!
Cindy -- Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas On ECIR protocol since 2/19 https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/ History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125
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