IR + Arthritis help


Kinsey
 

Hello,

Thank you so much to this group, Bucky has been doing well on his recovery from his mild laminitis episode back in October/November. He has been sound regarding the laminitis issues and his IR is under control with the ECIR protocols.

A separate issue has now come up - he is lame in his RH. I had the vet out today to take radiographs and turns out he has a small fracture in his coffin bone and severe arthritis in his hock (only radiographed the RH hock, but suspect it is probably similar in his LH as well). The vet made some recommendations as far as course of treatment goes but I am holding off on starting anything until I make sure everything will be ok relative to him having EMS.

So, my questions are:

  • EQUIOXX / The vet prescribed Equioxx for long-term use (he is on Jiaogulan now, I know Equioxx is an NSAID so I'm assuming I should take him off the Jiaogulan for now??) Vet made it seem like the Equioxx will likely be a life-long medication.
  • JOINT SUPPLEMENTS / Vet suggestions: Platinum Performance CJ (Complete Joint) or Cosequin ASU. Are these ok for an ECIR horse to get?
  • INJECTIONS / Vet's suggestions: Hock steroid injections (she noted that it may trigger laminitis so probably not the best choice), Adequan injections (1 injection 4 days in a row biannually), or Noltrex injections

If anyone has any help or suggestions to offer it would be much appreciated as well!

Thank you,
Kinsey

--
Kinsey in GA 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kinsey%20and%20Bucky
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257041


Mary T
 

Hi Kinsey,

My mare, Ally, has both PPID & EMS.  She was diagnosed with arthritis in both hocks December 2020.  Because of her PPID, steroids are contra-indicated as they will cause laminitis and founder—so my vet injected her hocks with platelet rich plasma (PRP), an autologous (horse’s own serum) product that is safe for PPID & EMS—it won’t cause laminitis.  Ally responded well to the PRP and is comfortable & sound when ridden lightly, which was our goal at age 25.
--
Mara & Ally
2006 PNW


Joy V
 

Hi Kinsey,

I also have a horse with both PPID & IR.  He was on Equioxx for 2 1/2 years prior to being diagnosed with the PPID/IR.  After about 8 months, the Equioxx was causing mouth and throat ulcers, and he was going off his feed every few months.  He has TMJ (and possible THO but that has not be confirmed) as well as pretty bad arthritis in his hocks.  I took him off the Equioxx pretty soon after his metabolic diagnosis and started him on CBD.  CBD has worked very well for him.  Initially I bought a prepared CBD product for horses by Neurogan and it was good, but there were issues with shipping beginning in 2020 (something with the state of California and the dept of agriculture) so I switched to raw CBD shake and have had him on that since.  The raw CBD works very, very well for him, and there have been zero noticeable side effects.  (CBD is legal in all 50 states)

I would think that hyaluronic acid injections would also be safe to have done for your horse's hocks (i.e. Legend for example).  **Dr. Kellon would need to confirm this though. 

You should probably search the files/messages for safe joint supplements, many on the market aren't safe for horses with IR.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Intravenous hyaluronic acid is fine. However, it won't help pain from eroded  cartilage or joints with extensive bone spurs.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Kinsey
 

Okay thank you for your help. I looked through some of the files and searched "arthritis" in the messages to do further research.
I will try the Mov-Ease as a supplement. I think Adequan injections look promising.

I read some information about Noltrex injections, from my understanding it is a newer course of treatment. According to their website it is safe for ECIR horses. Anyone have any experience with Noltrex?


--
Kinsey in GA 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kinsey%20and%20Bucky
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257041


Daisy Shepherd
 

dr kellon, would the  euckele cbd pellets be helpful ?  thanks, daisy and tiko
--
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Joy V
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Valletta Lochridge
 

My vet recently recommended Equioxx for arthritis and my horse is definitely more comfortable.  However, I'm hesitant to use this drug for the long haul so I'm looking at alternatives.  I'm interested in PEA but need to study that further.  Joy, I see that you've had success with raw CBD.  Could you expand on the "raw CBD shake?"  How did you prepare this?  What dosage did you use?

Valletta and Rego in CA
2012


Allison
 

Does anyone know of an affordable CBD shake available in Canada?
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Joy V
 

Hi Valletta,

I'm going to copy and paste a response to another group member I communicated with via email:

I buy "shake" aka "trim" online from hemp farms in Oregon.  I've used several different farms.  **I entered a link to the farm I've used most further below in this email. 
 
You do have to "decarb" (activate) the CBD by baking it.  I bake mine in a Pyrex 9x11 glass cake pan @ 240 degrees for about 30 minutes.  I cover it with a tent (for lack of a better word) of foil because there are terpenes in the CBD and they will escape if you don't cover it, but you need to cover it loosely.  You want the terpenes in there, because they assist the CBD in binding to the CBD receptors.  After it's baked/activated, I keep it in a gallon zip lock storage bag.  It will smell your kitchen up, just fyi, but I run my vent fan and the smell dissipates pretty quickly.
 
Whatever CBD you order will come with test results, that show the amount of cbd per mg.  For instance, the most recent purchase I made is "240mg/g" which means there are 240 milligrams of CBD per gram of shake.  I have a scale I got from amazon that was I think $11 and it works great for this.  My horse has some really bad arthritis (hocks, tmj), especially in his right front foot where he broke his P2 when he was 6 yrs old.  I am dosing him at 3.5 grams 2 times per day.  So he gets a total of 840 grams of CBD 2 times per day.  It's working beautifully.
 
I started out at 200 grams 2 times per day and adjusted upward until I could see that he is really comfortable.  I started at this dose because I had already been giving him a commercial horse cbd product and knew what he had been dosed at with that.  
 
This is the strain currently available with the highest CBD per mg that I could find:  ** https://fernvalleyfarms.com/product/sour-lifter-cbd-shake-trim/   It's testing @ 157.99 mg/g and is called "lifter".  It's what I usually buy and I get a pound at a time.  The amount of CBD varies.  Also, all CBD has a trace amount of THC in it, just so you know.  It is below the legal limit federally, so you can't get into any trouble for having it.  CBD is totally legal and it all has trace amounts of THC in it.  Not even close to enough to cause your horse (or you, if you used it for yourself) to get "high".


Willie has been on CBD for almost 2 years now, with no noticeable side effects.  It's very apparent how well it's helping the 2 times that I have run out.  Within 24 hours his tmj is very apparent.

I hope this helps you and your horse.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Valletta Lochridge
 

Thank you so much for all of the info, Joy.  I will be giving this a try but I'm guessing that I need to wean him off of the Equioxx first.

Valletta in CA
2012

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 10:31 AM Joy V <jvenham@...> wrote:
Hi Valletta,

I'm going to copy and paste a response to another group member I communicated with via email:

I buy "shake" aka "trim" online from hemp farms in Oregon.  I've used several different farms.  **I entered a link to the farm I've used most further below in this email. 
 
You do have to "decarb" (activate) the CBD by baking it.  I bake mine in a Pyrex 9x11 glass cake pan @ 240 degrees for about 30 minutes.  I cover it with a tent (for lack of a better word) of foil because there are terpenes in the CBD and they will escape if you don't cover it, but you need to cover it loosely.  You want the terpenes in there, because they assist the CBD in binding to the CBD receptors.  After it's baked/activated, I keep it in a gallon zip lock storage bag.  It will smell your kitchen up, just fyi, but I run my vent fan and the smell dissipates pretty quickly.
 
Whatever CBD you order will come with test results, that show the amount of cbd per mg.  For instance, the most recent purchase I made is "240mg/g" which means there are 240 milligrams of CBD per gram of shake.  I have a scale I got from amazon that was I think $11 and it works great for this.  My horse has some really bad arthritis (hocks, tmj), especially in his right front foot where he broke his P2 when he was 6 yrs old.  I am dosing him at 3.5 grams 2 times per day.  So he gets a total of 840 grams of CBD 2 times per day.  It's working beautifully.
 
I started out at 200 grams 2 times per day and adjusted upward until I could see that he is really comfortable.  I started at this dose because I had already been giving him a commercial horse cbd product and knew what he had been dosed at with that.  
 
This is the strain currently available with the highest CBD per mg that I could find:  ** https://fernvalleyfarms.com/product/sour-lifter-cbd-shake-trim/   It's testing @ 157.99 mg/g and is called "lifter".  It's what I usually buy and I get a pound at a time.  The amount of CBD varies.  Also, all CBD has a trace amount of THC in it, just so you know.  It is below the legal limit federally, so you can't get into any trouble for having it.  CBD is totally legal and it all has trace amounts of THC in it.  Not even close to enough to cause your horse (or you, if you used it for yourself) to get "high".


Willie has been on CBD for almost 2 years now, with no noticeable side effects.  It's very apparent how well it's helping the 2 times that I have run out.  Within 24 hours his tmj is very apparent.

I hope this helps you and your horse.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Joy V
 

You're welcome Valletta.  


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Allison
 

Joy.... to what level of activity is your horse comfortable while on CBD?  Is he rideable?  How much? W/t/c? 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Joy V
 

He's super comfortable on it, and would be rideable if he wasn't constantly having laminitis from outside issues.  He just had a 3 week bout of laminitis because we got a bunch of rain and the grass really sprang up in his paddock over a couple of days time.  I've been killing it and covering it but he still got enough to affect him (which reminds me I need to update his case history again).  He's finally doing much better this week, so hopefully I can start him with hand walking in the next few days.  It's been rough, because there was a tenant at the barn who would sneak and feed him carrots and apples.  She finally got kicked out of the apartment there I think it was before Christmas, and Willie of course improved greatly for about 5 weeks, and then the rain came and grass started sprouting up.  He was walking and trotting 30 mins a day, but in turn out, not riding.  I haven't ridden him much at all though.  It seems like there's always a set back when he's looking good enough for me to get on.  Fingers crossed I can keep him treat and grass free.  We should be go to go then. 


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Allison
 

Thats awesome. Is he on any other sort of joint support or anti inflammatory? 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Joy V
 

He's on Jherb & chastetree berry powder, don't know if those would be considered anti-inflammatory or not.  He's also on chondroitin sulfate powder.  It's more for allergies than anything else.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526