Equishure and Insulinwise


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi,
My mare, Midnight, has been exhibiting some atypical behavior over the last few months... paws a few times in the crossties (NEVER has done that since I took her home over 17 years ago at 2.5 years old) and occasionally reaches up to her belly with her right leg and gently brushes her belly... she'll do that 3 or 4 times over a 5 minute period, especially while eating) and then I might not see her do it for the rest of the day or even the next day.  She's always been an aggressive alpha mare but lately she's a bit more mean to her sister.  She does not like her Pergolide at all and walks away when she see me coming with it... fortunately, she lets me catch up with her and gives in.  But I am wondering if the medicine is causing her discomfort.
My alternate vet was out here today to take blood for retesting ACTH and IR and she seems to think Midnight could have the start of an ulcer and prescribed Equishure.  Has anyone used that product and have you any experience to share?
Also, Midnight is currently on 2 ml of Pergolide at 2.7 mg/ml which is the equivalent of approximately 4 Prascend pills.  (I have not recently updated her history file but everything else is the same.)  Not seeing too many good results yet and this vet is concerned with her fat pads and weight so wants me to try her on Insulinwise.  So again, has anyone got any experience with it?
She is still great on the trail and always looks comfortable when she is resting.
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Linda,

When you have a moment could you please update your signature with your CH link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window that has your name and location in it.

3) Add the link I included above on the line below your signature and make sure the link is "live". You may need to add a space after the link or hit the enter button on your keyboard to turn it blue.

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

You can do a search in the archived messages on Insulinwise as well as reading the study and Dr. Kellon's notes on it here:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Insulinwise  The short answer is there's very little evidence that it actually works any better than getting the diet well controlled. 

From looking at your Case History it looks like Midnight had a decent amount of weight to lose to reach her ideal - has she lost any of that weight since your last update?  How much hay is she currently eating?  Are you soaking it or has it been tested?  Is she still eating alfalfa/timothy pellets?  (If so, I would stop those). 




LJ Friedman
 

why liquid pergolide??
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi Sherry,
Sorry... I will do the updates today/tonight.  No, she is about the same weight or a tiny bit more since we've had some awful winter weather and I have not been able to ride her very much in the last month or 6 weeks.  No more Alfalfa... now I feed (as a carrier) 1 heaping cup of plain Timothy pellets and 1 heaping cup of LMF low NSC and I am able to add close to 1 1/2 tbsps of salt which I could not before the LMF.  She is free fed an orchard grass that is 7.3% ESC and .2% starch, 11.8% Protein with a DE of .95 and, unfortunately, an RFV of 109.  Not free feeding is not an option since she colic'd 2 summers in a row even tho I was dividing her hay into 4 separate feedings with "lunch" supplements as a fifth feeding.  Has not even approached colic since I started free feeding 4 years ago so I am more than reluctant to stop.
Thank you for the Insulinwise info... is there anything else to help reduce the IR fat pads?  I already tried Thyro-L and it didn't help at all.
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi LJ,   I went to liquid Pergolide mostly because Midnight won't take the Prascend pill no matter how I disguise it and since she would be up to 4 or 5 a day, it was the only way to get any of the med into her.  Also, with two Cushings horses, the Pergolide, while still amazingly expensive, I can afford it better.
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Linda,

I'll refer back to our basics:

  • Diagnosis
  • Diet
  • Trim
  • Exercise

You have the diagnosis, not sure about the trim and so you're left with diet and exercise.  If you're not going to restrict her to the amount of food she should be eating for her ideal weight you will probably not get ahead of her IR without putting her in a very intense exercise program, and with some horses even that isn't enough.  You could try reducing the amount of grain to the bare minimum needed as a carrier but that will probably have a minimal effect at this point.



 

Hi Linda,
You may have told us elsewhere but I’m wondering why you decreased the pergolide from 3ml to 2ml in January?  If I’m reading this correctly that would be equivalent of dropping her from 6 Prascend tablets to 4.  I don’t see anything in your testing which would suggest to me that should be done.  Are you planning to retest soon?
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


bakermouse
 

EquiShure is encapsulated sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) that can make it through to the hind gut and neutralise acidity. Kentucky Equine Research make this product and have some info on it up on their website. 

I have used it in my possible IR horse that isn't overweight but seems to have a few inflammatory issues. It helped according to my daily diary- her eye crustiness cleared up and what I speculated might have been a staph infection in it seemed to clear (was it lurking in her hind gut- not sure). She has seen two vets, I was just searching for a nutritional approach to getting that eye inflammation/ infection to clear up- the vets were just prescribing antibiotic eye drops and telling me to use them forever.  I gave her a couple of courses and it cleared up briefly each time but then returned. 

EquiShure is pricey here (but a good product and I do buy it- I have seen it help a couple of ponies in the area). I had a crack at making my own encapsulated bicarbonate of soda (encapsulation in oil is needed to get it through the stomach and into the hind gut), I mixed coconut oil and bicarb 50:50, froze on big catering trays then smashed/ blended into tiny bits & kept it in the freezer. Coconut oil is high in omega 6 and has no omega 3 so I'm not recommending feeding that to horses, I just wanted to know if I could make it and I did feed 30ml of my crumbed mix to my horse and it seemed to help. She was also getting flax oil, flax flakes and vitamin E & an iron-free, manganese-free balanced vitamin mix that works with my pasture profile. 
--
Louise B, New Zealand, joined in 2021


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Louise,

Glad her eyes are better but hind gut acidity and/or hind gut flora has nothing to do with it. Association is not causation https://wp.me/p2WBdh-Ex
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


NinaJW
 

Hi!  Just on the Equishure... I use it. In fact I had to use it when we began Precend or he didn’t eat or drink. Dr. Kellon had asked if it might inhibit absorption. So I called KER and asked them about that ( and any other supplement that  I give) they told me even the RiteTrac which covers both fore and hind gut will not interrupt or change absorption of the Precend. 
Look up the effects of psyllium powder on the gut. A bit less expensive but might long term be an even better solution to any ulcer issues. These are just my personal experiences. Good luck
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202


Starshine Ranch
 

Thank you... 
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi... sorry but I didn't see this right away/earlier. 
Actually, she was never getting the 3 ML dose... a bit embarrassing to explain and somewhat having to do with not understanding the timing of the seasonal rise, but suffice it to say, she was without anything for a couple months in Oct/Nov.  So I when I started her up again, I got to 2 ML and decided to watch her.  I fully suspect she will need the 3 ML once I get the test results in a few days.

Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi Sherry,
I updated my signature and then I wanted to upload my updated Case histories but I don't know where to find the link.

--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Starshine Ranch
 

Sherry, I am coming to that very conclusion.  I am caught between a rock and a hard place because I was told that after a dorsal displacement, and she's had 2, the organ never goes all the way back to where it should be and will most likely displace again if she were to colic a 3rd time... and she managed to correct the displacement twice but... who knows if it happens again.
I do plan to ride her on the trails and work her in the roundpen as much as possible now that the weather is easing up.  I also plan to do whatever I can to keep her comfortable as long as she remains sound.  I'm trading off colic for the possibility of laminitis and it is stressful.
It's amazing that her full sister has responded beautifully to the Pergolide and maintains a perfect weight while free feeding.

--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Starshine Ranch
 

Thank you... baking soda... a friend of mine with stomach issues uses baking soda.  
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 For a good brief description of LDD see https://www.newenglandequine.com/Articles/NEEMSC-Nephrosplenic-Entrapment.pdf . It's highly unlikely that free choice feeding is preventing displacement. If you are going to continue it I would soak her hay and use double or triple very small hole nets (3/4 inch)
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Starshine Ranch
 

Thank you Dr. K,
I didn't mean that free choice feeding was preventing displacement but that it helps to prevent colic, for her, a gas colic.  I'm just so worried that she will colic again.  
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara