Need help ASAP - painful mini


amyscrivanich
 

I knew we were heading in this direction when we pulled her annual bloodwork(in March) and it showed her insulin >200.   I have kept her in the stall on mats, put her soft ride boots on, started her on STP ( 2 weeks ago) and jiaogulan (3 days ago).   I don’t have time to update her CH with those changes as I think she is going to founder on me and I’m going to lose her.  I just want to get her out of pain right now. Please help ! 

Amy & Mater
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


amyscrivanich
 

Correction - IR test was May 7th (not March ). I’m a mess 😫
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


celestinefarm
 

Amy,
I"m not sure from your post. She is footsore now, correct? Is she confined to a stall 24/7? What is STP?  I'm just clarifying these questions for either Dr. Kellon or one of the mods with experience with metformin who can help you. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Lorna Cane
 

P.S. Amy,

Is she down all the time?
Up and down?
Walking at all?
Eating and drinking well?
Is her stall deep bedded?
Does she get loose salt? Vitamin E ?
I see that she gets ODTB cubes exclusively,yes?  And flax?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Amy, 

STP contains yucca and isn't recommended for IR horses.

I just posted a link for you but it was the wrong one,so I deleted it.
I'll look for another, to back up what I said.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


amyscrivanich
 

She is laying down a little more than normal, So mainly up and very painful walking.    Pulsing bad on her left front.
cubes w rinsed beet pulp (I am stopping beet pulp tonight ) access to Himalayan salt block, deep bedding w mats yes to flax , no to vit E 

Vet said to give her 4 ml’s banamine which I’m doing right now 


thank you 
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


celestinefarm
 

Ok I looked up STP. STP stands for Stop The Pain.  Here are the ingredients. Agree with Lorna, discontinue this immediately as it contains yucca and dextrose.
Ingredients: Bio-Flavonoids, Bupieurum, Devil’s Claw, Yucca Extract, Boswellia, Water, Dextrose, Natural and Artificial Flavorin

Also, if you believe she is in active laminitis, I would not use Jiaogulan now either.  If she were mine, she would be bedded on a lot of shavings and I would consider taking the Soft Rides off. I find Soft Rides work for going outside or on hard surfaces but if they are just standing around, IMO, they keep continuous pressure on the soles and frogs and laminitics can become extremely uncomfortable with them on for long periods. I think they work best when the horse is moving around which allows them to take weight off the gel and the bottom of the foot. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


celestinefarm
 

Amy,  I would not continue the Himalyan salt block. The color in those blocks is iron and impurities. Iron can drive insulin up. White iodized salt in her food or loose in a bowl. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


celestinefarm
 

" Pulsing bad on her left front."  
This sounds like a possible abscess.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Lorna Cane
 

Agree about removing the boots right now, Amy. Unless,of course,she is less comfortable with them off.
Have you checked for rubs? Even a slight bit of bruising on heel bulbs can be excrutiating for some horses. But check other places,too. Coronet area,for example.
Stall mats are really very hard,especially for sore feet.Deep shavings will help her.....6 inches? Not sure how big her stall is,but even if you can deep bed her in the area she uses most,it will help.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


amyscrivanich
 

Wow, I panicked and did everything wrong it’s probably what made her make such a sudden turn for the worse.   Removing salt block, taking her off of STP & jiagolulin And will see how she does without boots on.  Vet also called in Invokana and it should be ready tomorrow AM 


--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


amyscrivanich
 

And when I went to give her banamine she was down 😞
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Lorna Cane
 

No beating yourself up !!

Don't forget to add in loose iodized salt.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lorna Cane
 

How many doses of Banamine has she had?

I like Dawn's idea about an abscess,since it appears that one foot is worse.
I forget,but does Banamine actually help with abscess pain?
Anyone?

It's ok for her to be down if she wants to be. Resting her feet.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Erica Reimers <Ereimers90@...>
 

Hang in there Amy. Having a foundering horse is not an easy experience to go through.  You are definitely in the right group though to get the best advice possible. I thought I was going to lose my guy this past November.  He was up and down a lot like yours and had a nasty sinus infection at the same time.  But what kept me going was that he would still eat and drink and wanted lots of snuggles. There were definitely some days I wanted to give up and hated seeing him unhappy. 
Things will get better. ❤  take a deep breath and know that you are doing what you can to remedy the situation.  

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 1:15 PM amyscrivanich via groups.io <amyscrivanich=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
And when I went to give her banamine she was down 😞
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


--
Erica H CA 2021


Lorna Cane
 

Ok,I reread what you said about banamine,so this is her first dose. It usually makes a difference pretty quickly(depending on issue), so within 45 minutes. Can even be in 20 minutes.

Keep breathing, Amy. For you and your girl.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


amyscrivanich
 

She definitely seems to be more painful without the boots (flat out down now and labored breathing 1 hr after Banamine)    I’m 99% sure it isn’t an abscess as she has been in the boots since her last trim and mostly stable until this week.  She has had slight intermittent pulses in both feet on/ off for a couple of weeks.   We just can’t get her insulin level down.    


--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Lorna Cane
 

I'm glad you're in touch with your vet,Amy.

Does she have a temperature?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


celestinefarm
 

A couple of comments from experience.  I've had horses go flat out , moaning and stretching an abscessed foot out like it was spasming.  My friends big imported warmblood did the same thing.  So don't discount an abscess BUT we are not there to see your mini. Horses will often breath fairly heavily when they are lying down, but again, if it were me, I would have my vet examine her.  This increase in symptoms and pain could be an abscess or could be some other problem and I would think a vet visit is in order.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Amy,

How does her trim look at this point?  Short toes?  Does she have any sole?  IME since banamine (or any NSAID) is not indicated for either metabolic laminitis or abscesses I would replace it with Phytoquench pellets with Devil's Claw.  How is her weight?  Is she still on metformin?  Has she had any access to grass recently?