Saraphina new rads, help Lavinia


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Lavinia,
I added rads taken 8/10/21. Farrier is coming Sunday. I was wondering if you could give advise or mark ups.We were able to get Saraphina out of her stall on pads for xrays.Still having a hard time getting photos as she was not sedated or nerve blocked. I was told to try dorm gel to get photos.To my surprise she is up a lot starting to eat better and walking in and out of her stall and into her pen on sand.
Thank you
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Cyndi,

I'll try to get you something in time for Sunday but I don't now if I'll have time as I'll be tied up with the ECIR NO Laminitis Conference tomorrow thru Sunday.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Cyndi,

I've added mark-ups to Saraphina's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266150

The last trim made a good start on getting the toe backed up but there's still more to come off. Her heels need to be lowered as well so that the bony column rotation is corrected.  Absolutely NO touching of her soles for any reason. Also nothing off her frogs. Only take bar off if it ends up extending beyond the wall/heel height, in which case lower them just enough to be a few millimeters below the wall height. LF shows flaring in the walls , which should be removed and her walls should be beveled so she isn't standing only on the walls.

RF dorsal composite: on the radiograph, the green lines follow the walls down toward the ground. Solid blue areas are where the flaring is.The yellow lines are the bottoms of the walls - which are partially hidden by the block she was standing on as the rad was shot thru the block.  Blue Xs are where to bevel the walls off the ground. The red arrows point to a few of the lines that run across the entire toe area. These are part of the laminar wedge, which has a somewhat spaghetti-like look.
On the photo, the green lines are the same as on the radiograph. The solid blue areas are the flared material that can be beveled off. t\The light colored arrows point to some of the spaghetti-like laminar wedge material.

RF lateral composite: On the rad, the green line is a visual (NOT a trim line) as to where the dorsal wall would be if the hoof capsule were correctly aligned. The pink line follows the bony column alignment and ends on the ground where the breakover should be - which shows that her soles are too thin right now as the line ends below where her actual sole depth does. Purple line follows the actual bony column alignment - see how the tip of the coffin bone dips down away from the pink line, due to the bony column rotation that is present. The solid blue line at the toe is where to back the toe to, with the blue Xs marking the excess material that can be removed.. The red line, which stretches from the breakover point back to about mid-foot, is the DO NOT TOUCH area along the bottom. The dashed yellow line is where the actual bottom of the foot is now - again, the rad was shot thru the block, so makes seeing the lower part of the hoof capsule difficult to see.The lime line is where to lower the heels from the mid-line of the foot back to correct the bony column rotation. When you are done, the bottom of the foot won't be flat like it would if a shoe was being applied - which may be odd looking but is what is needed right now. Yellow line #1 runs thru the coronary band, yellow line #2 points to the extensor process. The distance between them denotes the amount of sinking.
On the photo, the lines and Xs correlate to the same ones on the radiograph.

LF lateral composite: Same general concept as the RF. Back the toe to the blue line, lower the heels along the lime line. Again, leave the soles, frogs alone.

LF sole: Solid blue line corresponds to the blue line on the rad and the lateral hoof photo. Blue hashed areas are the material that needs to be removed: back the toe, lower the heels, bevel the flared, detached wall out of weight bearing. Don't touch anything inside the solid blue line.

Great news that she is moving better. Experiment with boots and pads to find what makes her the most comfortable. Any boot she wears should have an aggressive bevel added to the treads at both the toes from 10-2  and across the backs of the heels.

You need to take her of the Equioxx as she is on Gastrogard due to suspected ulcers. All NSAIDs are going to exacerbate ulcers, plus combining the Gastrogard with an NSAID is doubly dangerous.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Lavinia,
Thank you so, so much! Farrier is on his way!
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cyndi,

Just a suggestion although it's not going to work for today.  We have a horse that needs to be medicated for the farrier to work on him at my former farm.  I was just in touch with his trimmer about what she's now using instead of Dorm and it's this product: https://www.wellpetdispensary.com/for-dogs/hemprx/.  They do 1 dropper in feed 2 hours before she arrives and then she puts another dropper on his gums before she starts working on him. 

For him it's been a game changer because he was very unstable with the Dorm but using the HempRx he's calm and able to stand for the trimming and casting.  She will also put high density foam under the opposite front foot as well to help with his comfort level while he's being trimmed. How well that works of course depends on what's sore on the horse in question but just some other ideas for helping get Saraphina's feet done.




CYNDI CARLSON
 

Sherry,
Thank you I will keep this in mind.Saraphina did pretty good, we kept her on shavings with opposite boot on. He commented on how much better she looked from last time he saw her.Things are looking up! Just working on getting her off Equioxx, I have her on half a tablet now do you think I can stop and put her on photoquench/ devils claw? 
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Lavinia 
Philip was just here followed your mark ups .It went well!

Thank you so much!
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cindy,

Were she mine I'd change her over now. Nancy shared a story on Friday about stopping NSAIDs with her horse and how much better he was afterwards and you may find the same with Saraphina.




 

Yay, Cyndi and Saraphina!  Sounds like it was a good day today!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Great news, Cyndi.

FYI, I just spoke to him as well.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


CYNDI CARLSON
 


Cindy Q
 

Hi

Just wondering if you have any updated hoof pictures to share? How's Saraphina after you stopped the nsaid?
--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response





CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Cindy,
Saraphina is doing Ok.She will not eat the Phyto quench with devils claw but she is eating just devils claw from Uckele . She is still sore enough that it’s hard to pick her feet up to get photos. I am having a hard time getting her to eat anytime but dry hay, no soaked hay cubes of any kind, no Stabul 1. Sometimes she will eat hay with water sprayed on it. She is on 2mg of Prascend ,metformin and I am mixing flax,vitamin E. Magnesium, trace minerals and giving them orally. She has gained some weight.My concern is she’s still dealing with ulcers, I just finished 28 days of Gastrogard now giving her half a tube for 14 days.
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cyndi,

Not sure how you are administering the metformin but do make sure if you're syringing that you're rinsing her mouth out well afterwards as it can cause mouth ulcers which can be painful. 




CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Sherry,
yes I am administering it orally and rinsing her mouth out.
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


CYNDI CARLSON
 

I’m wondering about a product mentioned by my vet that might help Saraphina with her ulcer problems.The company is Arenus and the product is Assure guard.I have been giving her Gastrogard for 28 days and now 14 more days on half a tube, but I haven’t seen much improvement and the vet thinks this would help cover more GI issues.
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


 

Hi Cyndi,
I don’t know of the product you mention.  Maybe someone else does but usually we find that the same results can be accomplished with feeding any useful ingredients it contains separately for less money.  Someone else might have suggestions about pre and pro biotics but I don’t have much experience with them.

My thinking on the ulcer treatment, and I’m hoping someone will step in if this is incorrect, is that you would need to start counting your ulcer treatment after stopping the Nsaids, which would not have been long ago.  Whether she should have a break from the omeprazole then started again or you should continue straight through is something I  really don’t know.

Having bought and administered lots of omeprazole, I have a few tips.  I may have served a few tubes of GastroGard but, once I learned that UlcerGard was the same product, I bought UG on line as it was less expensive.  Frequently, it appeared that the less expensive it was, the closer it was to the expiration date so I weighed the savings of purchasing in bulk with how much I might need.  I also got word of Ablergard.  I wondered about it but didn’t try it until I learned that some of my connections were using it successfully.  It used to be more complicated to acquire than I had patience for but, once I learned the routine, it was easy.  Sort of like posting a case history, haha.  I haven’t had need of any recently but it appears from their advertising that things have become more conventional.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I agree with Martha that until the NSAIDs were stopped, the Gastroguard may have been ineffective, or possibly causing greater damage, so assume that you were starting at the beginning on Aug 15 when you stopped the Bute.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/261812

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Sherry Morse
 

I was also going to point out that until you stopped the NSAIDs you can't really consider that the ulcer med was actually working so you need to count from August 15, not before.  As Martha mentioned there are less expensive options that GG.  I used Ulcerguard as well and I know many people who have used Abler.

I would not spend a small fortune on the Assure Guard product when you could buy other products that do the same for much less money and you don't know if you actually need it at this point.



Debra Trujillo
 


-- I have used Assure Guard Gold before.  When I was researching the Arenus products, I found Assure Guard has added sugar, but not the Assure Guard Gold.  So, if you do ever decide to try it, the Assure Guard would not be good for an IR horse.  I did double check with their nutritionist on the added sugar and he confirmed sugar was added to one and not the other.  I think the Assure Guard Gold has the ulcer ingredients too.  They are very pricey.  They are psyllium fed daily (along with other ingredients) and maintain daily is better than once a month for moving any sand and is better for overall digestive health.  I used Assure Guard Gold for quite awhile, until I could no longer afford it.  I really did not notice any difference in my horses.  

Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .