Testing


Chris Hanson
 

Hello,
Im still working on the background info for my 20 year old Arabian Woodstock (Woody).
My vet took fasted samples today (though I requested the samples be taken after feeding as Dr. Kellon’s remarks in the intro outline).
The samples are refrigerated currently on their way to Davis for testing. 

Are today’s samples worthless for testing glucose, insulin and leptin?
Is this fasted sample OK for testing ACTH?
Woody eats soaked hay along with the Timothy balance cubes and rinsed beet pulp. What minerals and vitamins should he be tested for assuming a fasted sample won’t affect these levels?

I’ve been trying to get this info through last minute research while my vet drives but failing a bit.
thank you,
Chris Hanson
--
Chris H in CA 2021


 

Hi Chris,
While the samples aren't worthless, they aren’t ideal.  Still puzzling over how the vet could have taken fasting samples unless the vet is in control of his feeding.  I would go ahead with the analysis.  We don’t usually test the blood for minerals and vitamins, with the exception of vitamin E, if a deficit is suspected.  Mineral testing is done with the hay.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Chris Hanson
 

Thanks Martha. 
The vet went by the barn before they fed.

Do you test for iron levels?
--
Chris H in CA 2021


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Fasting can have a huge effect on ACTH too  (lowering) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24906932/s . Fasting  insulin is OK as long as you realize the ceiling is between 5 and 8 uIU/mL.

As Martha said, minerals should be measured in the hay, not the blood. This explains why in more detail https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/BLOOD%20TESTING%20FOR%20MINERALS.pdf .  The other problem is that even if a deficiency is found you can't tell why (overt deficiency vs competing minerals, or both) and you don't know how much to feed without knowing the starting point in the hay.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Sherry Morse
 


Chris Hanson
 

Thank you all so much, this is extremely helpful.
Currently (but this will change soon) I have little hay storage so I can only purchase a small amount of hay at a time.

I’m about to test the bales I have left and am shopping for more hay which I will soon be able to store at a higher volume so all hay Woody gets going forward will be tested. Thats when I figure I could balance the minerals. It would be nice to do for the three remaining bales I have to start though.

Because he has been eating unsweetened beet pulp during that time as well and I’ve only recently started rinsing it seems checking his iron would be a good thing too.

Chris
--
Chris H in CA 2021


Cheri Tillman-Anderson
 

Hi, Chris - Just wondering where you get your unsweetened beet pulp?  I haven't been able to find it here and have been using Triple Crown Naturals balanced timothy cubes.  Thanks much!
--
Cheri
May 2020 New Mexico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheri%20and%20Chama
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261805


 

Hi Cheri, nowhere near NM, but my feed dealer sells it.  You can also buy SpeediiBeet online.  All beet pulp should be rinsed, soaked and then thoroughly rinsed again.  Speedi-Beet does not have added molasses but it is 5% sugar.  Searching the messages using “beet pulp” should be productive.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Chris Hanson
 

Hi Cheri,
I’ve been using Speedibeet.
I didn’t know about the 5% sugar, thanks Martha!


--
Chris H in CA 2021


Cheri Tillman-Anderson
 


Maria Duran
 

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 06:55 PM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
Fasting can have a huge effect on ACTH too  (lowering) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24906932/s . Fasting  insulin is OK as long as you realize the ceiling is between 5 and 8 uIU/mL.
Dr. Kellon, the lower ACTH in fasting is because cortisol is higher?

Thank you.

--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
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Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

No.  Cortisol is also lower when fasting.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Chris Hanson
 

We are retesting tomorrow 4 hours after Woody gets his forage. I have a couple of questions:

I suspect the hay I’m feeding soaked is pretty OK however am still waiting on test results so forage wise in AM Woody gets a hay bag with 2lbs of the soaked Teff hay then I give him roughly 2lbs of Timothy balance cubes (wet).

Is the hay and Timothy cubes OK to be considered as forage ration for this testing?

We were planning to test only ACTH with this one (the last test came back high but I’m waiting to share results to save folks responding till I have more info) but my vet mentioned the day other that the fasting blood draw happened right after my horse had eaten only a few nibbles of his hay, which I would think could skew also using the different cutoff to adjust the Insulin and glucose results for fasting.
So it seems to me that should be retested as well?

--
Chris H in CA 2021


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Chris,

That feeding is fine. Yes, may as well retest insulin too.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Chris Hanson
 

Thank you…this is really helpful.
Chris

--
Chris H in CA 2021


Maria Duran
 

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 03:48 PM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
No.  Cortisol is also lower when fasting.
--
Thank you Dr. K.

 
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
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