Please help me with my beloved mare #photo


dr.kellylear@...
 

Hello, my name is Kelly Mancinelli. I have a 27 year old mare who has been having a progressively worse issue with laminitis for about 7 weeks. She was previously diagnosed with Cushings disease and it has been well controlled for 3 years and monitored via metobolic panels. In July when she came up with a grade two lameness in the left front and was first misdiagnosed as navicular. After no improvement I had a standing mri done and it stated moderate laminitis. I took her to a podiatrist with the findings and he put a PLR shoe on her. I also took her to a board certified internal medicine specialist to have another metabolic panel ran. The pain got worse with the plr shoe. The internal medicine doctor said her metabolic panel was fine and she was on teff hay and low starch feed so she should be fine. By the end of July she was very lame on the left front and mild lameness on the right front. I found another podiatrist who did a venogram and confirmed laminitis and put her in a 20 degree wedge. I also showed him the findings on her metobolic panel and he said everything looked good but increase her pergolide from 1 tab to 1.5 tab. 
My mare improved in those glue on wedge shoes for about 2 weeks then pain started to increase and this time bilaterally. The podiatrist did another venogram and vasculature blood flow was decreased over the dorsal lamina but no further rotation was noted. He is recommending ddft tenotomy. I also got another internal medicine specialist to look at metabolic panel and he discovered she was insulin resistant likely from the high protein and fat in teff hay. 
So 4 days ago she was taken off teff and switched to soaked coastal along with levothyroxine, insulin wise, and metformin along with pergolide and ciproheptidin. 
I have attached her most recent venogram and radiographs. I don’t no if I should cut her ddft or give her time. If you could look over them and give me your prognosis and recommendations I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!
--
Kelly Lear in Texas 2021


Cindy Q
 
Edited

Hello Kelly

Welcome to the group! 

Unfortunately, as you have seen, even internal med specialist guessing on hay by the varietal and other assumptions, can yield poor results. For now, please put your horse on the Emergency Diet as soon as possible. You will find it here under the heading What is the Emergency Diet? 
https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diet.php . The hay should be soaked for 1 hour and drained well among other details. This is also stated/ linked in our full welcome letter I will be sharing below, which will describe the protocols recommended here for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim + Exercise (only when the horse is comfortable).

Specifics matter so please detail the "metabolic panels" results. Our recommendation is to keep cushings horses on a dose of pergolide that keeps their ACTH in the low to mid part of the normal range. It's probably a good step increasing the pergolide for now but the ACTH should be (re)tested to check the progress/whether you are at a good dose. Do you have the previous test results? You can detail them in your case history.

Usually laminitis can be seen on xrays quite early on. Were xrays done? As you have been consulting with various vets over time I would guess that you had multiple rounds of xrays. Please upload them to your album. Details found below where it says "make an album" under the TRIM section of our welcome letter. You should also get hoof pictures uploaded. Again details matter. I have seen horses with laminitis go very poorly immediately upon being wedged up. Is your horse still in the shoes/wedge? What package is on? 

Here's the letter and take the time to go through each section. You can start the emergency diet immediately and please fill up your case history as best as you can. It can be supplemented later again as you go along. If you need help or clarification, please let us know.

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response





dr.kellylear@...
 

I don’t understand how to upload a case history or all her radiographs and  metobolic panel. Should I put it in here? 
--
Kelly Lear in Texas 2021


Cindy Q
 

Hi Kelly

Here is the link to your album folder: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371
Please add the link that goes to your Album into your signature.

In the album page, you can select "Edit Album" and rename it to Kelly and Saddie. I see you have uploaded some xrays, venograms and reports.

I have entered your test results for glucose and insulin into the ECIR calculator: https://www.ecirhorse.org/EMS-calculator.php
G/I Ratio 4.10
RISQI 0.2
MIRG 8.5

All 3 readings show your horse is EMS/IR.

It looks like you have joined the Case History subgroup already. Go to this page : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/ and look for the NEW button. You can then create a sub-folder called Kelly and Saddie. Go into that folder to upload your case history.




--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response





dr.kellylear@...
 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371

-- here is a link to view my mares radiographs, blood work, venograms, and mri report
Kelly Lear in Texas 2021


Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Kelly
Thank you for uploading your mare's rads and the reports. I know it's kind of confusing, but within the Case History sub-group where you uploaded the graphics files for the rads etc, we also ask you to create an album in the Files section and upload a case history. Your album with the rads etc is in the Photos section of the Case History sub-group, while the folder you will create for your case history is in the Files section. 
Please use the case history form that you can find here: main@ECIR.groups.io | Wiki You can also find detailed instructions there. This link is also in the welcome message Cindy sent you below. In addition, please have a read through the welcome message as it contains a lot of information that will assist you to help your dear mare. 

We ask you to use our case history form to collate the details because there is information we need in order to responsibly offer comments to you. This includes, for example, the details of the metabolic panels you mentioned, all her diet intake, the circumstances of her testing etc. If you don't have some information, that's fine, just fill in what you do have. The comments section at the end is where you can add background information and current concerns. 

Basically, you need to download the case history form to your device, save it with the date and your horse's name, then fill in the details. Save it to your device. Then go to the Case History sub-group Files section, as Cindy mentioned, go to the Files tab, then click the New Upload button and create a case history folder as per the instructions linked above. Once you've created the folder, then you can open the folder and upload the case history form that you saved on your device. 

Finally, please copy the URL of your folder and add it to your signature (like when you created your name/location/year signature). You can see mine below.

Please let us know if you get stuck anywhere, and let us know where in the process you are. It sounds terrifically complicated, but actually if you follow the steps one by one, it is pretty straightforward.

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kelly,

First some housekeeping. You need to add these 2 links to your signature:

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window where you typed in your name and location

3) Copy the 2 links that I included here and paste them in the line below your signature.  You may need to add a space or click "enter" on your keyboard to make the links live (turning blue means they're live)

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

As far as your mare - we need to know if her bloodwork was done fasting or not.  If it was done fasting she does test as IR.  Her current hoof issues will not be solved by a tenetomy in our experience but by a good corrective trim which brings her toes back to where they should be and keeping her in boots which will provide support for her as her feet recover. 

Were she mine I would get her out of the current appliances ASAP and get her trimmed correctly. You'll probably see a good deal of improvement in her attitude once she's not being put in a position where all the weight is being pushed down on to the tip of her coffin bone.

What is her current weight vs. ideal weight?  Did the vet advise you to start her on Insulinwise and Thryo-L to reduce weight or insulin?  We as a group have seen little success with Insulinwise (although they do apparently offer money back if it doesn't work) and Thyro-L will help jump start weight loss but will not reduce insulin.  Her insulin level as listed in your bloodwork is well below what we usually recommend metformin for, particularly without diet changes being implemented.  I'm sure your et is taking the "kitchen sink" approach, however the downside of that is that you then don't know what worked vs. what did not.

We recommend diet and trim changes to start and then using Metformin on those horses who don't see a reduction in insulin with the changes in diet and exercise as possible.  That helps you get a clearer idea on what is working and what does not.





dr.kellylear@...
 

I think I got it fixed. I just wanted to get some opinions because this is all so confusing. My mare is hospitalized on fluids right now. The surgeon reviewed her radiographs and agrees that the ddft tenotomy is not in her best interest especially since she has so much sole still. His biggest concern is the amount of inflammation in the dorsal hoof wall. He measured it and said it is about 31mm. He is concerned with that much inflammation the coffin bone isn’t getting much blood flow. He said there is really no way to fix this and despite all our efforts she might not get better. I really scared and not sure what I should do. 

She is on the emergency diet with hour soaked Timothy (waiting to get analysis results back) magnesium, vitamin E and flax seed. She is only getting 10% of her body weight. 

She is also on pergolide which has been increased. 

is there anything else I can be doing for my mare. I am so scared too much damage has been done and she will never get better. 


--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kelly,

Why is your mare on fluids?  Is she still wearing the appliances on her feet?  Did you mean to say she's only getting 1% of her body weight in hay?  That is not enough - we recommend either 1.5% of current weight or 2% of ideal weight WHICHEVER amount is GREATER and that includes hay and any supplements (such as rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp). 

In our experience there is a way to fix this but the first piece of the puzzle is removing the cause of the problem - that's why we emphasize tightening up the diet and making sure the trim is optimized.  While you're making progress with the diet, the trim still appears to be an issue.

Getting a case history completed and pictures of Saddie's feet following the directions in the Wiki (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1482#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help) will go a long way in helping us help you.

In the meantime - keep breathing!



dr.kellylear@...
 

Hello, 
she is on fluids because she wasn’t drinking well when she was increased on pergolide. Yes, the appliances were removed from her feet and she is now in cloud stratus boots. And yes I meant 1.5% of ideal body weight 

I will contact the barefoot trimmer tomorrow to see when I can get her out. 

I have uploaded an album with her radiographs and put the link below my signature. Is it not showing up? 
--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kelly,

Yes the radiographs are in your album but we would like to see pictures of the actual current trim to advise on where that can be improved. Since we don't know what dosage of pergolide you started at or how quickly it was increased I'd recommend titrating up slowly (by 1/4 of a mg every 3 - 4 days) until you reach your new target dose.  You may also want to purchase some APF to use as you titrate up in case the inappetence you're seeing is due to the veil effect.





dr.kellylear@...
 

She was at 1 tablet all spring and then went up to 1.5 tab end of July when laminitis was confirmed. I will increase her by another 0.25 tabs tomorrow morning. I have purchased APF and waiting for it to arrive. I will get some pics of her hoof now too. 
--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


dr.kellylear@...
 

I have uploaded images of my mares foot. Here is the link: 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371

 I noticed she has bruising along her coronary band and that she has a white bulge at the junction of the hog wall and coronet band. Is this something to be concerned about? 

--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


 

Hi Kelly,
I’m just a lay person here when it comes to feet but to me it looks like a normal closely clipped hoof.

Soaking her hay will decrease her need for water.  I notice that mine don’t drink as much when they’re eating soaked hay.

I put together a video on how to post your case history for the recent ECIR conference.  It’s brief to fit into an allotted time frame.  Others I’ve threatened to share it with have posted their case history within hours without the help of my video so I still don’t know if it would be useful.  I’ll send you a link if you like.  If where you are is anything like what it is here, I understand your ‘frazzlement’.  Vets are way overworked and techs are dropping like flies.  Things move more slowly with Covid protocols and people have adopted all sorts of ‘Covid pets’ which now need attention.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for posting the hoof pictures.  It would be most helpful to have the hoof on a flat surface but her heels appear to be a bit underrun.  Was she trimmed again when the appliances were removed?

The bulge is possibly an abscess about to come out (which may or may not be related to the inflammation noted by the vet).

If you post a new topic/send a new email with the subject "Trim help needed Lavinia" or something like that Lavinia will be able to take a look and possibly offer you advice on the trim but again, it's most helpful to have the hoof on a flat surface so it can really be seen.



Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Kelly,

I am too a lay person but I can share my personal journey with Vinnie. When he had a similar swelling at the coronary band it was the beginning of him sinking medially.  We had to resect the portion of the hoof wall at the coronary band to prevent compression.  I have some images that I can post of the beginning stages of the swelling if they are not already in my folder.  
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Kelly,

Is she showing signs of being more comfortable in the cloud boots?  The swelling at the coronet band could also just be from moisture/humidity in the boot.  I don't think its a big enough bulge to worry about just now, especially as it is very symmetrical and around both fronts.  You could try adding athletic cotton socks and human foot powder to help absorb any excess moisture.  The texture of the socks also increases circulation.  I'm assuming the boots have pads in them already.

It would be helpful to have rads without the wedges on to see what her current hoof-pastern axis is when her hooves are flat, as that will help guide trim decisions. 

I would also not worry now about how much damage is permanent at this stage.  Saddie is going to need time to heal and grow a new hoof capsule.  With the right diet (her insulin is under fairly good control), pergolide dose (also seems to be under fairly good control) and trimming she will likely have a full recovery.  We have seen much worse cases here.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


 
Edited

Hi Kelly,
Thanks for posting a case history.  It would benefit from the addition of the metabolic panel information you’ve posted in your photo album.  There are places on the CH form just for that information but you would need to transcribe it.
I did notice that you are apparently giving metformin once a day.  The dosage you’re using is recommended to be given twice daily.  As it appears that your insulin testing was done before the metformin was started, and it wasn’t outrageously high, it might be better to save the metformin use for later should you need it.  If she becomes more uncomfortable without it, you can always start it again.  Some horses benefit from its pain mediation effects even if it doesn’t decrease the insulin by much.

Edited to add:  I meant to mention that one of your reports indicates that the mare is on bute.  Is that still the case?  I did not see that included in the CH report.   She is also on omeprazole and it is not advisable to give NSAIDs and omeprazole together.  Best to wean off the NSAIDs if she’s still on them.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Kelly,

You have her insulin and ACTH in good control. Feet definitely look fixable. I think your last hurdle is to get her off NSAIDs and on something to actually  improve her perfusion.

BTW, she may be drinking less because the hay is soaked and she's not eating as much of it. Judging by her insulin, you'll probably find these hays are safe.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


dr.kellylear@...
 

Thank you for your help Dr. Kellon, 
Saddie’s bute is being tapered down and she is eating well. I did review her hat analysis and have uploaded it to her files. There are 3 hay samples in the file but she is on the Timothy. Is there anything else I should be giving her besides the Timothy, salt and remission supplement? Also do I need to keep soaking her hay? 

You also mentioned increasing the perfusion to her feet. Do you have a recommendation on how to do that? I didn’t know if the Bemer, red light, cold laser, or PEMF would help. Or is there an oral supplement or medication I should add? 

Thank you again for your help, 
Kelly 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie


--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371