Testing hay pellets


Joy V
 

Would it be appropriate to request the Trainer Package (#603) test w/ Equi-Analytical for testing hay pellets or would the Equine Complete package (#604) test be better?

Also, how many different bags of feed should I accumulate prior to testing?

I did a search of the files (#9c) to try and obtain this info on my own, but I think some of the tests that were done previously aren't available anymore.

I'll share my results in the files, and thanks in advance!

Joy
--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


 

Joy,
How much of willie's diet is comprised of these hay pellets? I know it can be hard to get grass hay at times in areas of California. I don't see any feed entries for 2021 in his case history.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album Deceased


Joy V
 

Hi Bonnie,

He's getting 1 1/2 cup of orchard pellets & 1/2 cup of LMF Low NSC Complete right now.  I'm trying to do away with the LMF completely & shift over to 1/2 beet pulp & 1/2 hay pellets only because the beet pulp is way lower in sugar than the hay pellets & LMF.  It's only for the supplements, but he's super picky about the salt so I have a hard time getting him to eat them with any less carrier and he is NOT a fan of the beet pulp pellets I bought.  I think they are too mushy for him.  I plan on buying shredded beet pulp this week.  I did use LMF & beet pulp for a couple of weeks and noticed a huge difference in his crest & sheath and then he started turning up his nose at his buckets.  When I took out the beet pulp he was a fan of the buckets again.  The change in his appearance made up my mind to get rid of the LMF altogether.  But I want to analyze the orchard pellets though to see how much sugar they have because they may not be appropriate for him either.

He's eating tested hay for meals though.  I have an updated case history that I didn't upload yet, but it already needs further updating (to reflect more weight loss YAY!).

Thank you!

Joy

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


 

Is Stabul1 from Chewy an option? It comes with a guaranteed analysis so no testing required.

When I sampled and tested  timothy pellets, I used Standlee. Each bag is stamped with the mill run date followed by a unique bag number within the run. This is a nice feature because you should  be able to get all bags from the same mill run. I bought and sampled all of the bags and resealed them. If not Standlee, try to select your pellets from the same pallet. I’d want enough bags for a 5 or 6 month supply. Just recognize that without a guaranteed analysis the consistency from bag to bag isn’t assured. 

Order the 603 Trainer from EA or even just the carb pack if you want yo economize. 

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


 

Joy,
For most bagged feeds feeds doing an analysis is a bit of a crap shoot. There is no way of know that the contents of any given bag is the same as the more bags of the same mix. MFGR's make statements about sugars, starch, NSC, etc but in reality they most likely do spot sampling  of "some" lots of feed. Pelleted hay is likely to have come from numerous fields and locations. I would think you would be better off buying hay to use as the bulk of your horse's feed if at all possible.

Stabul One is rigorously tested and can be used as a complete feed. The Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes are another safe hay based feed (cubes). I suggest that if you find a hay (bales or pellets)  that you want to test you could start with having just ESC (sugars) levels and starch levels tested. If those levels are safe for your horse then have the rest of the #603 Trainer package run on the feed. If the ESC and or Starch are too high you haven't wasted too much money. 

The LMF Low NSC Complete is actually a feed on our "Safe Feed" list. 
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album Deceased


Joy V
 

Standlee isn't an option around here.  I'm really just trying to get him to mostly eat beet pulp (and not much of that) with a little bit of "taste tempter" which will either be the orchard pellets or I can stick w/ LMF.  Hoping to get to 1/2 cup or less of that.

Thank you Cass!

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


 

Hi Joy,

My horses rejected their bucket feed at first because of the salt.  I began sprinkling it over their hay.  If the hay was wet from being soaked, I added the salt dry but if the hay is dry I dissolve the salt in hot water first.  They never seem to reject the hay with salt on it.  This allows me to use a very small amount of carrier for their supplements.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Joy V
 

Hi Bonnie,

Willie's diet is mainly tested hay that he is free fed via a slow feeder.  I have had him on tested hay for about 1 1/2 years now and have seen a HUGE difference in him.  I just had to adjust how I do the free feeding because he did put on weight initially once he figured out how to work the hay net.  I now have the bale doubled bagged with slow feed hay nets w/ 1.25" openings and that has done the trick.  He has lost weight (my hoof care professional thinks he's lost 200 pounds) and has become sound enough to ride again.  And he looks good too but I may be a bit partial.  ;)

The hay pellets are a very minimal part of his diet, and only to get the supplements into him.  He's super picky about the salt.  I've had to back off the salt twice and am trying to re-up it to the correct amount of 2 heaping tablespoons.  If he would just eat the salt, I'd use even less of the carrier for his supplements.

I noticed an enormous difference in his crest & sheath when I replaced some of the LMF with beet pulp.  Other people at the barn noticed this as well, which was really telling.  That's why I wanted to get him off the LMF, and would like to get an idea of the sugar level in the orchard pellets.  To begin with I was using 1 quart of the LMF, because that was the only scoop I had.  And then I took a measuring cup and checked to see how much LMF that actually was and it was a LOT.  So I started to use a measuring cup instead and when I got him down to 2 cups of LMF he wouldn't eat his supplements with all the salt, so I tried adding beet pulp with 1 cup of the LMF, which was acceptable to him for about 2 weeks, and then he said neigh.  So then I thought I should maybe try the grass pellets and then add beet pulp back in.  

My goal is to get him to the minimal amount of carrier, and for that carrier to be mainly beet pulp.  All of this has shown me how much he really reacts to sugar.  I'm not emotionally invested in the orchard pellets, I'm just hoping I could use less and less of them until I get him on mostly beet pulp.  He really likes the LMF and noticed pretty quickly that I was using less of it.  He doesn't seem to notice change as much when the carrier is hay pellets (i.e. less carrier etc).  **Also, I am measuring beet pulp to feed after it's been s/r/s so it is not a lot of that either.  I do think he dislikes the beet pulp pellets because they get so mushy.  It's like the consistency of steel cut oats or something like that.  I had forgotten until he turned up his nose at his bucket that I tried the beet pulp pellets for him years ago with the same result.  He seemed ok with the shreds (this would be 10 years or more ago).

I just checked my case history and realized I'd never updated the date on it so it looks like it's from June of 2020 but I actually updated it in January of this year.  I need to do another update but would like to wait until I get this supplement carrier thing settled.

Thank you for your insights Bonnie!

Joy

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


 

Joy,
You might find adding Animed Brewers Yeast as a taste tempter to your carrier will work. My horse loved the taste and it is safe to feed..
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album Deceased


Joy V
 

I'll try the brewers yeast, thank you Bonnie!

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Joy V
 

Hi Martha,

Because I free feed Willie his hay, I can't put the salt on it.  I don't think it would stick and surely I'd have a buildup at the bottom of his feeder.  If I soaked his hay, that would absolutely work.  It's a great idea.  Thank you!

Joy
--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Joy,

In case you missed it, Martha also suggested spraying salty water on dry hay as an option.  Take the day's salt ration, dissolve it in boiling water, then spritz or dribble it onto the hay in the net.  If you can remove salt from his supplements you might have more success feeding less carrier. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Sherry Morse
 

A few other thoughts on the salt - have you tried putting his daily loose salt ration in a bucket and just leaving it to see if he eats it at all?  I don't think this is as popular as it used to be but some horses will eat the salt straight if given the option even if they don't like it mixed in with everything else.

My other suggestion would be to back off on the amount of salt and see if he'll eat the concentrate mix you'd like him to be on without any in it and then start adding in 1/4 tsp at a time and see if you can work him up to the full amount - or if not you'll find out where it goes from being acceptable to being 'too salty' for him.




Joy V
 

Hi Kirsten,

I did see that suggestion, but I have reservations because Willie's hay is double bagged to slow him down, and most of the surface of the hay is covered by net, so I think that the salt water would end up soaking into the hay nets mostly.  I can't envision how it would work.  I will give it a try and see.  

Thank you!
Joy

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Joy V
 

Hi Sherry,

I did try leaving loose salt for him.  He dumped it out.  He was probably expecting an extra, tasty bucket, and got salt.  Outrage.  

He will lick a salt block, and I've got one in his shelter, but we all know that it's impossible to know what he's getting and he is more likely than not, not getting enough.

I have backed off on the salt and have been working it back up, but I'm only giving him 1/10 of a gram more per day.  So far so good, but this AM he wouldn't finish his bucket because beet pulp.  I left it with him and maybe he will get bored and eat the rest later.  He's very good about not eating spoiled food so I'm not worried about that possibility.

Thank you for the suggestions!

Joy

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Kim Leitch
 

Joy,
I use a plastic squeeze ketchup bottle, like you see on tables in cheap restaurants, with a long nozzle. I mix the salt and hot water in it, then stick the nozzle through the net to squirt the salt water on the hay.
--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Dually: IR; Grits and Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related)

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=64978




Joy V
 

Thank you Kim!  What a great idea!  I really appreciate this and all the other suggestions.

This is the most amazing group.  SO GRATEFUL to you all.

Joy

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526