Sore post trim


Lamourah Perron
 

Thanks so much Lorna!
--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Lamourah,

Go here in our Files
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing

Scroll down to Hay Balancing

People don't have to be in your area (or even in Canada) to balance your hay,if that was a concern for you.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lamourah Perron
 

Hi Lorna
I am looking at finding someone who will take my hat analysis and then balance the minerals to the hay with EMS in mind.
I was hoping that they would be affiliated with this site as I did believe that this site has the best knowledge regarding such conditions.
So, I believe we are on the same page. I am new to navigating this website and could not find any recommendations for a nutritionist.

Cheers
--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Lamourah,

There may be, I'm not sure.
Just want to say,though,that more than 20 years ago I became aware , with my herd of 9, that my nutritional knowledge was minimal. I researched,and searched ,and bought books,and bought products,and talked to more nutritionists,and bought more products/feeds,and so on.
The more I studied,the less I knew.
The more people I talked to,the more questions I had. And the more frustrated I got.
Eventually one of my boys was diagnosed with IR/PPID. ( that became 7 as years passed).It was the best thing that could have happened,in its own way,because now my search included IR/PPID,and FINALLY I found this group,and Dr. Kellon.

This will sound biased,but I'm as old as dirt , and have covered a lot of ground ,trying to keep my boys well. You will have trouble finding a better source of equine nutrition than Dr. Kellon,and students trained by her.
"Speak as FACT only what you KNOW to be true."
Lots of science-backed advice, lots of validation provided by test results, and clinical signs of our horses, no marketing .
As all of us, want to learn about what else is going on, but I always rely on what I learn here,as being tried and true.
I'm not alone,as you can tell,by reading through the messages. There are over 9,000 members here,some posting, some following along as needed.

Hoping this isn't seen as a shameless plug. Just trying to save you some grief/frustration on your journey.
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lamourah Perron
 

Hi Kristen
I am wondering if there is a list of equine nutritionists in Western Canada anywhere on the site?

Thanks
--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lamourah,

There are areas of the trim that cold be improved but I'll leave the specifics of that to Lavinia. To comment more completely on the diet we really need a full case history including all details of current diet, current weight and ideal weight.  Pictures of your mare from the side would be helpful to us as well.




Lamourah Perron
 

Hi Kirsten
Yes my hay analysis does show iron content and it is fine. It was suggested to me to have her water checked and that beet pulp could be adding to any iron issues. Dr. Kellon replied to me regarding beet pulp. As long as I am rinsing well, it is not an issue, which I am.

I have added hoof photos to my case history and will adding my new hay analysis along with new blood work and xrays when I see the vet in Oct.

I have been working with an equine nutritionist for over a year now. She is the one that alerted me to the fact that my mare should not be still sore post trim. It seems that I have her diet down, so I am curious if my trimmer is taking too much off. Please have look at the current photos of her hoofs and let me know what you think.

I posted her hoof pics

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267812

Cheers,
--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Lamourah Perron
 

Hi Kirsten
I have posted her hoof photos.

I posted her hoof pics

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267812

--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Lamourah Perron
 

Hi Lavina
I posted her hoof pics

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267812

--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lamourah,

When you have a moment please add your photo album link to your signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267812.

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub
2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window with your signature.
3) Paste the link to your photo album below your current signature and add a space or hit return to make the link "live"

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!





Kirsten Rasmussen
 

If you are wondering about iron in the hay, does that mean your hay analysis does not report iron?  Or do you have an analysis showing that it is high?  Often iron is high in hay due to dirt contamination, so vigorously shaking the hay, or rinsing it, or soaking (to reduce sugars) and thoroughly rinsing it before feeding will help remove some dirt.

In the meantime, I would suggest working on a Case History document for your horse.  If you need some instruction on how to get started, let us know.  Once you create a Case History folder in the Case History sub-Group, which is different from a photo album, you can upload any documents you have like copies of bloodwork (black out your vet's info please) and your hay analyses.  That's great you are working with an equine nutritionist!  I'm sure they have explained why it is critical to balance minerals so that they match your hay analysis and offset the effects of high iron in the hay, especially for IR horses.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Lamourah Perron
 

Hello Dr Kellon
Thank you for clarifying! 
--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Lamourah Perron
 

Thank you, I think I have got it. I will take more pictures today.
--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Flax most definitely is not a trigger. Beet pulp is high in surface iron which is why we rinse/soak/rinse. This brings iron down into the same range as hays.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lamourah,

First you need to join the Case History sub-group, if you haven't done that already as photos are uploaded there. Just scroll to the bottom of the Home page and click on the Join button.Here's the link:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory

Here is the link to the instructions for creating a photo album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1474

Here is the link for what photos are needed:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472

If you get stuck, please let us know where you are stuck and we can help walk you thru the process.

HTH.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lamourah Perron
 

Hi Lavina
I am not sure where to upload my photo's of her hoofs, can you direct me to that page?
--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Lamourah Perron
 


--Hi Kristen
Here hay is tested and l is 6.7 new hay 6.9. I am wondering now about iron.
Also I was told that ground flax can be a trigger for some horses. She is on 1/2 pound a day as my hay is low in protein.
I also feed her beet pulp as a carrier, I soak over night, soak in boiling water and rinse till clear. I was told beet pulp is high in iron.
I am getting blood work Oct 12, next time my vet is in the area.

Please let me know your thoughts on the flax and beet pulp, both suggested by my equine nutritionist.

Cheers

Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lamourah,

You have done a LOT to help your mare, all very good changes.

Chronic laminitis is caused by chronic high insulin.  The only way to know if that is the reason for her ongoing tenderness is to have her insulin, glucose and ACTH (this is used to diagnose PPID, which can cause high insulin, too) tested.  If you haven't already, see our webpage for protocols on getting the most accurate test results, and make sure your vet agrees to follow them.
https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diagnosis.php
I ask my vet to run the PPID package, which includes insulin, glucose and ACTH) at the University of Guelph.

If your test results show insulin is at a safe level, then the hoof pain is not likely to be chronic laminitis.  That's where addressing other causes becomes the focus, including the trim, arthritic changes, navicular, etc.

Have you had her hay tested for ESC and starch?  The 644 Carb Pack or 603 Trainer package offered at Nutrilytical in Calgary will give you this information.  They will even ship you a hay probe on loan for a small fee to take the hay samples.  If the ESC + starch are >10%, as fed, then your hay might be part of the problem.  Some equines are more sensitive to sugars, or after laminitis/founder the reduced exercise alone during recovery can make them more sensitive than they were before (increasing age also has an effect) and they may need hay that is 7%, or even less in some cases.  Not sure where you are located in BC, but here in my northern area I've yet to find a hay with <10% ESC + starch....I've only tested a few local hays though.  Until you know your hay is safe, you may want to soak it.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lamourah,

In general, a horse shouldn't be sore for 5 days after a trim. If it is, there is something about the trim that isn't correct. The trim schedule sounds good. Is she sound before the trim?

It would be very helpful if you would post a set of hoof pictures  - that way, we can take a look ans may be able to pinpoint what the problem is. Here's the link for how to create an album and what photos are needed:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472

Have you had a chance to do a case history for your girl yet? That will also help us to help you more effectively.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lamourah Perron
 

My mare foundered in February. She had not been on pasture since the previous September. I changed her hay as the hay she was getting had alfalfa in it, this was about 4 months ago. I also cut out all clicker training treats 
I changed barefoot trimmers to one that could accommodate  a 4 to 5 week trimming schedule. I also took a course on trimming and rasp every 7 to 10 days in between trims.
My mare is still in boots all the time and is sore post trim for about 5 days.
Back when she foundered she had slight rotation and very thin soles.
I am wondering now if she has chronic laminitis or is this lenghth of time for being sore normal? 
I am sure she IR but not confirmed yet by blood work. That is happening soon.
I am wondering if I have overlooked anything or does it just take time.


--
Lamourah Perron
British Columbia, Canada 2020