After being stall bound for 5 weeks since founder and now diagnosed with PPID but having to stop Prescend due to developing hives we still get to celebrate a small victory. New boots double padded was the encouragement she needed to leave her stall. You can see a picture of her in a small dry lot at the following link. I did take a video but could not post it in the photo file. Would love to share that too. She did not stay out long but her hay bag is outside in the adjoining shelter to her stall so all she has to do is step outside. This is an emotional day seeing this big strong heavily muscled athletic mare so fragile. At the same time this is a major milestone to get her outside in the sun and moving around. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

This great news - it’s lovely to see her outside.

--
Lesley and over the bridge Omar,
11-2012, Cambridge, UK

Omar - Case History

What's the plan for figuring out if pergolide caused the hives?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Thank you for asking, Dr. Kellon,

He did not mention trying to determine why the hives. He is going to consult with board certified vets on possible options. She did not get any Prescend yesterday and is on Benadryl 2x day. Hives still present but do not look as bad  

My new vet did not want to do bloodwork the 2 times he was here. Said we would do when he comes to ex ray her feet in a few weeks. Just did the ultrasounds to verify pregnancy and we looked at and discussed plan for her feet.  So I pulled the blood (I have red and lavender tops) and took it to first vet who has a Cornell account and he is the one who gave me the Prascend. It made sense to use first vet for this current situation. Not an ideal situation but I am trying to do the best I can for my mare. I did send a copy of bloodwork to new vet and updated him she started Prescend. Have not touched base with him on the hives. 

I have had Chicy since she was 2.  This is the first time in her life she has been on any meds other than wormers, banamine when she sand coliced once,  vaccinations and titer checks to determine if vaccine needed. A few abscesses over the years and that was it. She has never had a reaction to anything. 
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Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

Janet,
I feel that you should contact the vet who provided the Prascend so that he can notify BI (the company that makes it) for their side effects registry.  They may also have suggestions for some sort of work around.
--

That is the vet I contacted - the one who did the bloodwork and gave cv me Prescend. He was my original vet that said fetus was no longer alive snd I needed to expel the placenta . He did not mention calling them. He did say it is not listed as a usual side effect. I will ask him to call them. Maybe he is planning  to do that and did not mention. It is not ideal I switched vets mid stream but my original vet would not come to Chicy and I had to get one who would and he showed me the live fetus on 2 untrasounds he did. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

It's not a usual side effect in any species but with the timing it has to be considered.  However, there are other possibilities and in looking at the dates the hives/bumps should be gone by now.  Are they?

There are other medication options but before considering them it's important to find out if this was really a pergolide reaction.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Just also wondering, if the fillers used in the Prascend could cause a reaction...might not be the acive drug itself, , but the compounds its mixed with,  that might have produced a reaction? Maybe compounded perg won't do that....????? 
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder

Dr Kellon
I contacted Dr  Love today and he will contact the makers of Prescend to discuss and get back to me. 

Timeline:
2021-10-14.  Thursday AM. Bloodwork testing arrived from Cornell. Ordered APF. PM  First dose Prescend. 1/2 tab. 

2021-10-15.  Friday PM Noticed Bumps/hives appeared on both sides of neck. Was not sure what they were or if It was my imagination.   Administered 2nd dose 1/4 tab Prescend. 

2021-10-16 Saturday PM 3rd dose. 1/4 tab. Bumps/hives still present but look bigger. Is this a rough hair coat or something else as could see but not feel with my hand  

2021-10-17. Sunday 4th dose Prescend. 1/4 tab. Bumps/hives look bigger. 

2021-10-18.  Monday. PM. 5th dose 1/2 tab.  Prescend. Bumps/hives still present. Starting to appear on back. Are they on sides or is that my imagination. She has winter coat so now realizing this is not good.  1st dose of APF  10 ml  

2021-10-19.  PM. Tuesday. 6th does Prescient. 1/2 tab. And 10 ml APF. Bumps/hives now on back and sides. Could feel scab in center of a couple of bumps on back. Getting concerned. Took pictures and posted in group photo file.   Mare does not want to be touched. Acting painful.  Made text post to ECIR group. Administered Benadryl for first time around 11pm  

2021-10-20.  Wednesday Bumps/hives still present in all areas. Dr Kellon posted to stop pergolide and contact local vet. Stopped Prescend. Contacted local vet. Who will research and discuss with board certified vet on best approach. Administered Benadryl AM and again PM . 

2021-10-21. Thursday. Benadryl this AM  Bumps/hives starting still present but going down in size  Mare not acting as painful. Will continue Benadryl until  bumps/hives gone. 

Is it at all possible to take a natural approach of food with some added items such as niacin, B6, probiotic and possibly add some alfalfa or other legumes to her diet for protein?  I have her on low sugar + starch soaked hay and TC Timothy balance cubes. Just outside for first time in 5 weeks for vit D (sunshine) and moving around. I know vit D and niacin are good for immune system. If at all possible I would like to pursue a natural remedy. I have been reading some of the group files.  Can you please comment on this approach? 

The hay I am feeding I got from another group member who had it tested and I am feeding exactly what she feeds her cushings horses as it has been balanced. Problem is she does not have enough hay for me to continue getting from her all winter.
I located some Timothy with little orchard and sent it to equity analyzer 2 weeks ago but still do not have results  They told me today they are doing some retesting and hope to have results by end of next week  At that point I will need to rebalance if new hay is acceptable. 

Hope this clarifies situation. Thank you so much for your time  

--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

Sorry, Janet.  I was confused, thinking there was old vet, new vet and vet who sent samples in.  Reports from users build their side effects database.  Some are valid and some are coincidental.  How did you administer the Prascend?  With a carrier?  In water?
Trisha, I went through their literature, looking for inactive ingredients but they must not need to report those.  I was struck by how many times I read on the BI site about Prascend’s light red color.  My compounded pergolide has always been slightly blue.  Do you suppose they add dyes?
--

"My compounded pergolide has always been slightly blue."

Interesting,Martha.

My compounded pergolide caps. have always been white.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

Checked bumps/ hives tonight and almost gone. Still some on back. Chicy does not like me to touch them. The ones with the scabs are still present. Gave more Benadryl tonight and 10 ml of APF. Should I continue the APF?
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

Martha,
I just wrap a handful of hay around the Prascend tablet and she eats it. As for the Benadryl she eats the pills Wright out of my hand among with a few tc Timothy balance cubes. Typical of cushings she is very hungry so her soaked hay is in hay bags to make her work for it and it lasts longer. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

No need to continue Benadryl or APF.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Update:
Bumps/hives all gone. Only remaining ones are the ones that had little scabs. The scabs are still present. 

Chicy was in her dry lot this am. It rained last night and she must have gone out in it. She was dry but could tell she had been wet. 

No word from local vet yet!
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

Hives are back!  Last dose of Benadryl was yesterday AM (administered before I saw Dr Kellon's message to stop Benadryl).

--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

That's good in a way. At least you know it's not the pergolide. The cause is still there. Check list:

- new bedding or new bags of same bedding
- flying insects
- ground insects
- Autumn plant allergies
- mold exposure from decaying fallen leaves
- airborne exposure to chemicals like pesticides/herbicides from adjacent properties
-  improperly mixed fly spray (many cases of it coming from the manufacturer this way)
- new food ingredient

Did this begin when she started spending more time out of her stall?

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

I spend a lot of time sitting in the shavings all over her stall to rasp her feet and put boots on and off so no insects. The cv only thing I did yesterday was put some natural fly spray on her - the kind that smells like peppermint. It is a brand I do not use as they were out of the brand I like. This is the first time I have ever used it. But it is the only I did different. This would not explain the first break out. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

She was still in stall when she started Prascend. She just got out of stall for first time earlier this week on Oct 20, the date I started this post. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

Just wondering if the shavings could be causing the hives. Did you add a new bag? pine, cedar or, god forbid, anything with black walnut?
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382