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Allergy or reaction to vaccines
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https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/227381
https://www.benadryl.ca/products/benadryl-liquid-elixir Last year I was required to give K a 3-way vaccine myself, vet unavailable. There were several factors that may have caused the reaction (photos in my album shortly) 1) IR/PPID horse reaction 2) Administration error, by myself-inexperienced 3) Vaccine may not have been kept as cool as needed due to method transfered from vet to myself Which of these factors is most likely? I am concerned for this year and vaccinations. If I look at Jaini's message and Benadryl's contents, it looks like I am having to give horse 12 teaspoons of Benadryl 3 times (two hours before and every 12 hours until following evening) + a bute or recommended pain relief? Am I getting this correct? I hope the Benadryl link works but what it shows is medicinal ingredient is 12.5/5ml or teaspoon) -- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Kandace, I'll defer to any advice from Dr. Kellon obviously but for that reaction - how long did it take to go down? Any heat or pain with it? My guess is that it's more related to shot location and possibly administration than anything else so while you might want to use Benadryl you may not need the Bute unless that reaction was painful as well as large.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Kandace,
I would be very reluctant to give that horse any vaccines unless they are absolutely necessary. What was the vaccine? -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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What would you consider necessary vaccines. I live in Ohio. Also, what wormers are the safest to use for IR laminitic prone horses. I’m trying to avoid any flare ups
-- Janet M. OH 2021 |
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Have you had flare ups from these in the past? Vaccines depends on your horse's living conditions and exposures. None of the dewormers are inherently safer except it's prudent to avoid praziquantel in sensitive horses.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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The vaccine was three way, Tetanus, EEE/WEE I believe. I do not recall the brand. I had requested just Tetanus but that got lost somehow and vet supplied this 3-way.
-- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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I don't believe there was extreme heat or pain but horse was not happy and the time to clear completely was almost two weeks.
-- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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Dr. Kellon,
I believe this response may have been directed at Janet M., but I will say that the only time K had any vaccine reactions was a 6-way and I switched back to West Nile on its own, but all at the same time, just other side of neck. The huge reaction was after the diagnosis of IR PPID and it was the first self administered as well as first vaccination, which was why I wondered it administration could be the problem, as I have had a similar (albeit not nearly so large!) reaction happen to me if my own intramusculater injections are not deep enough. -- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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Dr. Kellon
If you can elaborate please, your comment of absolute necessity, The Vaccine was tetanus + EEE/WEE. Which are necessary? I would think tetanus should be? Also Rabies, as we are in sub alpine forest (summer) not too many skunks or raccoons but winters are on prairies, high elevation but more likely to encounter the above, plus foxes. Minimal contact with other horses. But one neighbor does travel out. Insect vectors include mosqitos, some deer flies and occasional black flies. Also, is it possible this first time extreme reaction was incorrect administration (not deep enough) by me? Or was this a more common reaction of IR/PPID allergy reaction to drug(s)? -- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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Kandace, deciding the core vaccines for your horse is best addressed by your own veterinarian with a history of the dates of past vaccinations and a knowledge of local cases and conditions. Those of us with vaccine reactors balance the necessity (incidence of cases, fatalities and/or transmissibility to humans) against the likelihood of infection. I know for my geographical location that EEE/WEE hasn't been reported in decades. OTOH, it's fatal and transmissible. Do this exercise for each vaccine and make a judgement call. Your boarding facility may have vaccination rules to consider. I accept a small (thumbprint size) swelling at the injection site as normal.
Experience shows the separating individual vaccinations by about a month may help avoid reactions. A major exception is Tetanus which is always combined with equine encephalitis series. There is some evidence that tetanus vaccination leaves horses with high levels of antibodies for at least 3 years. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26284567/ I believe it's universal in North America to consider tetanus a core vaccine, but that doesn't mean it's needed annually. Same with rabies. In the USA we have the option to titer for rabies and WNV. Titers cost more than the vaccines over time. There's detailed immunological information to the effect that we don't know exactly whether a high titer means high disease resistance. That's another factor to include in your balancing. -- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos |
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Frances C
Tetanus vaccines are available as sole ingredient. The thinking is now that once every 3 years is good enough. Years ago I questioned my vet as to why it was recommended annually when human recommendations were every 10 years. She replied that the research was conducted by the manufacturers of the products. Yeah! right as always FOLLOW THE MONEY.
-- - Frances C. December 2017, Washington & California Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382 |
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I'm not sure what is available there but you may be able to get tetanus and rabies titers done to check status. EEE/WEE depends on activity in your area.l
I doubt the administration caused the reaction. Absorption from injection in skin layers is even slower.IR/PPID horses may be more at risk of reactions but it is still not a common thing. Best thing to do in your case is to switch brands and spread out your vaccines. Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Thank you Dr. Kellon,
I will be showing this to my vet. -- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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Ditte
I know this is an old thread/question, but I found this topic after searching on praziquantel (it's in the dewormers I've just gotten from the vet and after reading this I'm now a bit reluctant to use them). My horse also has a history of swelling (and other side effects) after getting vaccines. My vet recommends injecting it in the chest (not sure if it's the right term in English?) instead of in the neck, because swelling in the chest doesn't bother the horses as much as in the neck. And my horse hasn't seemed bothered by the pretty large swellings. It bothers me more than her :-). Fortunately the horses don't need as many vaccines in Denmark as in USA. Pretty much only Tetanus as my horses aren't in contact with other horses. Unfortunately the Tetanus vaccine the vets use also has flu and I believe Herpes? in it.
-- Ditte Denmark June 2019 |
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Ditte,
Ask your vet if there is another brand of vaccine available. Switching brands can solve that problem. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Jean Hurrle
There may be excellent reasons to be sure vaccines are not multidose type vaccinations (3-way, 5-way etc.) because thymerosal is still being used as a preservative. Thymerosal is a mercury-based preservative -a derivative of ethyly mercury; mercury is a known neurotoxin. Mercury may be a factor in human insulin resistance; however FDA & CDC state there's no evidence of harm with thymerosal form of mercury. I've found no info on mercury toxicity for horses, nor whether the ethyl mercury form is as easily eliminated as had been believed; just that many/most of the multidose equine vaccines do tend to have thymerosal. CDC simply says that the ethyl mercury is more easily eliminated than the methyl mercury and therefore less likely to cause harm.
From the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.
From the CDC About Thimerosal Mercury is a naturally occurring element found in the earth’s crust, air, soil, and water. Two types of mercury to which people may be exposed — methylmercury and ethylmercury — are very different.
Methylmercury is the type of mercury found in certain kinds of fish. At high exposure levels methylmercury can be toxic to people. In the United States, federal guidelines keep as much methylmercury as possible out of the environment and food, but over a lifetime, everyone is exposed to some methylmercury.
Thimerosal contains ethylmercury, which is cleared from the human body more quickly than methylmercury, and is therefore less likely to cause any harm.
As my mare has cold foundered severely the past two winters, (January and February, northern Illinois) my barefoot farrier also has suggested that I be cautious to not add stressors such as vaccinations or worming when there are temperature fluctuations to prevent shock to the system. He also agrees with the ECIR recommendation to blanket, leg wrap and boot when the temps tend towards freezing. I began lightweight blanketing shorty this year when temps are below 50F. I've got heavier blankets for colder temps, and will put her soft ride boots back on with the inserts to insulate from the cold surfaces, including keeping her inside out of the wind and off icy surfaces with stall mats and heavy bedding. Some more human research papers, found with search " Mercury insulin resistance" https://journals.lww.com/epidem/fulltext/2009/11001/association_between_insulin_resistance_and.9.aspx https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935117303250 https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2017ER....156..747R/abstract -- Jean Hurrle Illinois; 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jean%20&%20Shorty%20aka%20VG%20YSA%20Tstar |
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