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Dosage of Pergolide? Help understanding test results after being on pergolide
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Thank you, Sherry, that makes sense!
-- Sharon Bice December 2020 Sandia Park, New Mexico Taillight's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Taillight%20Case%20History Taillight's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257590 |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Sharon, You are getting capsules. The original person who asked this question sounded as if they were using a powder not in a capsule. If that's the case every time the container is open the powder is being exposed to air and it is probably going to degrade faster than if it were in a capsule.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Hi Sherry!
Maybe I’m getting caught up on the terminology, but what do you mean by “ the most stable form of pergolide is capsules, not powder”? I get compounded peroglide from the place recommended here in Az (can’t recall the name at the moment) and it is powdered but in a clear water-soluble capsule. So should I be asking for it to be compounded in a hard pill form, versus a soft, see thru capsule with powder inside? Thanks and sorry!! -- Sharon Bice December 2020 Sandia Park, New Mexico Taillight's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Taillight%20Case%20History Taillight's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257590 |
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Hi Laura
Though they have backed off in recent years, the manufacturer of Prascend has pushed the compound viability issue for a long time. Several years ago, the ECIR Group Inc. funded a small group of members who submitted their 30-day old pergolide capsules for testing by this lab https://www.arlok.com/laboratory-services/analytical-testing Stability is each case was found to be 90% or higher. Here's an older message from me https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/223447 You are not throwing your money away. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2021-2022 |
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Sherry Morse
All the information you need on dosing Jiaogulan can be found in the files: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Jiaogulan,%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support,%20AAKG%20and%20Supps For horses on doses of pergolide over the standard 1mg dosage it is much more cost effective to use compounded medication instead of Prascend. BI does a good job convincing many vets to not write scripts for compounded but since you have a vet who will do that for you, stick with the compounded and ignore the woman at the office. As long as your horse's ACTH is controlled you are not 'throwing your money away'.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Laura Caplins
Thank you both for your suggestions. It is very informative and very helpful. Laura |
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There is a significant percentage of horses where even 2 mg is inadequate. I'd go to 2.5.
I would use this article as a blueprint for corrective trimming https://hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm . You'll need boots and pads. You should also get his diet balanced to ensure correct nutrition for hoof growth. The reports you have posted do not take mineral ratios into account. Once you get a good trim in place, Jiaogulan can be started to help with hoof comfort and increase growth. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Laura, We as a group have found that the most stable form of pergolide is capsules, not powder so just something to think about as far as 'best bang for your buck'. What the results tell you is that his PPID is slightly better than last year but still not as controlled as it could be. So increasing his dosage of pergolide is definitely the right answer, but again, you may want to consider going to capsules vs. loose powder that may lost potency each time it's exposed to air. I found you do have a photo album at https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=269693 - has Dandy's trim improved since those x-rays were taken? If not, it's not surprising he's still not comfortable as he had no sole and long toes and that alone could lead to soreness. Are you booting him at all so he'll feel more comfortable? Were this my horse I would address the trim before trying to put shoes on as that will not fix the underlying issues and may in fact may make him more uncomfortable. If you'd like assistance with his trim we'd need a full set of hoof pictures as outlined in the Wiki: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1482#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 Vet thinks that part of Dandys soundness issues are related to thin soles and wet conditions. He suggests shoes. His case history has just been updated. All the referenced lab results are uploaded. Thank you for any suggestions you might have. Laura -- Laura C in Montana 2021 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Dandy |
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Laura Caplins
I just had Dandy retested (6/8/22) with a Stim test with glocose and insulin. He was originally diagnosed with a Stim test last year (6/22/21), and is currently on pergolide 1.5mg powder. These are the results I am trying to better understand. Both tests were done non fasting, free choice hay avaiable, in the morning.
Is his PPID controlled? Can we tell from these numbers? Insulin 6/22/2022 = 39.8 Glucose 6/22/2022 = 94 mg/l ACTH baseline 6/8/2022 = 12 6/22/21 = 16.9 ACTH post stim 6/8/2022 = 148.0 6/22/21 = 265 Clinical signs: He is still intermitantly lame, with very sensitive feet - not wanting to move beyond a walk and unrideable. He is still thin and ribby with a pot belly. He has intermitant goopy eyes. All these signs are leading me to the conclusion that he might benefit from a higher dose of Pergolide. What are your suggestions on changes to his dosage? What sort of nubmers are we aiming for with these tests when a horse is being treatedwith Pergolide? My best guess is that he needs a higher dose, and as such I have moved him up to 2mgs per day (as of two days ago) but am unclear if this is warranted and how much I should be increasing his dosage if it is. Vet thinks that part of Dandys soundness issues are related to thin soles and wet conditions. He suggests shoes. His case history has just been updated. All the referenced lab results are uploaded. Thank you for any suggestions you might have. Laura -- Laura C in Montana 2021 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Dandy |
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