Date
1 - 15 of 15
WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
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Hi Lesley,
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Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite. How long has she been on it?
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Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album |
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Lesley Bludworth
She has been on it 2 weeks
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From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 11:13:43 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Hi Lesley,
Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite. How long has she been on it?
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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Lesley Bludworth
What will her options be if her insulin is not lower?
She went from 257 to 150 with diet changes only.
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Lesley Bludworth <Lesleyblud@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 5:44:22 PM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence She has been on it 2 weeks
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 11:13:43 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Hi Lesley,
Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite. How long has she been on it?
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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The most critical thing is that she is eating and drinking. If the Metformin is really the cause of the inappetence then the next step is to try Invokana or Stelgatro, depending on your vet's preference. Those are new drugs that have been very successful but have the potential for serious side effects. Dr Kellon has a protocol for the testing and feeding regime recommended here when on these drugs to minimize risk that she can send your vet if your vet emails her to request it: drkellon "at" gmail "dot" com
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album |
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Lesley Bludworth
Thank you Kirsten
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From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 7:16:04 PM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence The most critical thing is that she is eating and drinking. If the Metformin is really the cause of the inappetence then the next step is to try Invokana or Stelgatro, depending on your vet's preference. Those are new drugs that have been very successful
but have the potential for serious side effects. Dr Kellon has a protocol for the testing and feeding regime recommended here when on these drugs to minimize risk that she can send your vet if your vet emails her to request it: drkellon "at" gmail "dot"
com
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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Sherry Morse
Lesley, Have you checked her mouth for ulcers from the Metformin? If there's no evidence of those I would look at pain as causing the issue (or ulcers, she's been treated for those, hasn't she?) rather than the Metformin unless she stopped eating as soon as you started the medication.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Lesley Bludworth
Kirsten,
I do think her pain is not well controlled. She gets 2 scoops of phytoquench with DC a day.
Straight DC is being delivered soon. She still shifts weight over feet
Being treated for gastric ulcers, she does not have mouth ulcers. She has not been eating well since this started but getting much worse
Any suggestions for better pain management would be great.
I tried CBD oil last night. Helpful but I don't think the effects last a long time.
Thanks so much. I will feed the metformin today then
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 5:42:15 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Lesley,
Have you checked her mouth for ulcers from the Metformin? If there's no evidence of those I would look at pain as causing the issue (or ulcers, she's been treated for those, hasn't she?) rather than the Metformin unless she stopped eating as
soon as you started the medication.
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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Sherry Morse
Lesley, It would be very helpful for us if you could take and post current trim pictures and any x-rays you have so we can advise where the trim can be improved. Is she in boots now?
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Lesley Bludworth
Okay, I will do the pics.
I had sent the x-rays to Dr. K and pics after she got shoes put on and she just said she looks short, thin soul
She is in clouds and gloves with 4 mm soft pads. I don't notice a difference in her walk between the sets but better than without.
CBD last night seemed to make her more comfortable, she walked right into other horses area looking for unsoaked hay this am when I opened the gate.
Is eating now but 75% soaked sunrise timothy pellets and 25% tc timothy balance cubes with a tiny sprinkle of special care to entice.
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 7:39:58 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Lesley,
It would be very helpful for us if you could take and post current trim pictures and any x-rays you have so we can advise where the trim can be improved. Is she in boots now?
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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Lesley Bludworth
She seems to want to eat, she walked away from the soaked pellets and is straining to reach through fence to get what unsoaked hay she can from neighbor. She cannot get it but is interested.
Walks slowly around looking for stray blades of hay that have blown into her area.
Will post pics this evening if I can figure it out! :(
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Lesley Bludworth <Lesleyblud@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 8:09:46 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Okay, I will do the pics.
I had sent the x-rays to Dr. K and pics after she got shoes put on and she just said she looks short, thin soul
She is in clouds and gloves with 4 mm soft pads. I don't notice a difference in her walk between the sets but better than without.
CBD last night seemed to make her more comfortable, she walked right into other horses area looking for unsoaked hay this am when I opened the gate.
Is eating now but 75% soaked sunrise timothy pellets and 25% tc timothy balance cubes with a tiny sprinkle of special care to entice.
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 7:39:58 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Lesley,
It would be very helpful for us if you could take and post current trim pictures and any x-rays you have so we can advise where the trim can be improved. Is she in boots now?
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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Lesley Bludworth
I didnt her the pics, its quite stormy and the barn is dark.
I rubbed the walls of the feed bucket with wet special care and that seems to help her eat a bit more
Vet called with verbal report.
Insulin 45, glucose in normal range. But she's not eating and is on Metformin so not sure what this means.
Regarding not eating, Vet is suggesting stopping the pracend which was started about 3 weeks ago because she was continuing to deteriorate even with the diet changes. She seemed to do well with the 1/2 pill x 3 days and APF now A full pill.
Dr. Kellon recommended continuing til January and then doing the stress test in spring.
I'm okay to stop it... I think I read something about CBD and pracend??
I will attempt pics in morning
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Lesley Bludworth <Lesleyblud@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 8:09:46 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Okay, I will do the pics.
I had sent the x-rays to Dr. K and pics after she got shoes put on and she just said she looks short, thin soul
She is in clouds and gloves with 4 mm soft pads. I don't notice a difference in her walk between the sets but better than without.
CBD last night seemed to make her more comfortable, she walked right into other horses area looking for unsoaked hay this am when I opened the gate.
Is eating now but 75% soaked sunrise timothy pellets and 25% tc timothy balance cubes with a tiny sprinkle of special care to entice.
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 7:39:58 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Lesley,
It would be very helpful for us if you could take and post current trim pictures and any x-rays you have so we can advise where the trim can be improved. Is she in boots now?
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History |
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Sherry Morse
Well 45 is much better than where you started so that's good news. The fact that she's trying to eat unsoaked hay says to me she still has an appetite, she just doesn't like what she's been told to eat. Have you had the hay tested yet to see if you can stop soaking it? Have you offered her the current concentrates separately to see what she will/won't eat? When you have a moment please update the Case History with the latest test results and what her current diet actually is.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Lesley Bludworth
Sherry,
I offer her handfuls of all other stuff and she wants nothing to do with it. I suspect she has a bad association with everything I tried while she was acutely painful.
When I first gave them to her she gobbled handfuls of everything at first but now refuses them. Stabul, hygain, black sunflower seeds, she loved them initially but now won't touch them.
I will be buying new hay Monday and get it tested.
When I took her swimming we eventually got her to go in by offering alfalfa, she was ALL about it so I am confident her appetite is coming back :)
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 6:07:03 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Well 45 is much better than where you started so that's good news. The fact that she's trying to eat unsoaked hay says to me she still has an appetite, she just doesn't like what she's been told to eat.
Have you had the hay tested yet to see if you can stop soaking it?
Have you offered her the current concentrates separately to see what she will/won't eat?
When you have a moment please update the Case History with the latest test results and what her current diet actually is.
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277749 |
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Hi Lesley,
You may well be taking this into consideration,as you try to convince her to accept what you are offering her.But be aware of how very sensitive a horse's sense of smell is. Make sure that when you are offering various items the container(hand or otherwise) is impeccably clean,so that the scent from offending item doesn't turn her off the next one offered. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 |
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Lesley Bludworth
Lorna,
Thank you, yes.
I did get some anise to help with sense of smell encouragement.
Her buddy taught me a while ago about their sense of smell and my hands.
I would offer carrots in the mornings and sometimes her buddy absolutely would not take the carrot, and it alarmed me and thought something was wrong with him, but eventually I realized I had just handled dog food and he apparently is very
offended by dog food ;) as he should be... Sophie was never swayed. I had read the picky eaters file and then I did take some wet safe choice special care and rubbed her food bin with it and that helped some too.
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Lorna Cane <windybriars@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2022 12:31:41 PM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Hi Lesley,
You may well be taking this into consideration,as you try to convince her to accept what you are offering her.But be aware of how very sensitive a horse's sense of smell is. Make sure that when you are offering various items the container(hand or otherwise) is impeccably clean,so that the scent from offending item doesn't turn her off the next one offered. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277749 |
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