We are finally coming to the end of all the hay I tested from last year at the barn where I board Relevante. The barn owners grow/cut hay from several different fields. In the past, baled hay was grouped in the hay mow according to the field that particular batch came from. They just finished cutting/baling first cutting from these fields. But they let me know that the bales this time are all mixed together from the different fields up in the hay mow. Will the fact that I can't test samples separately from the individual fields affect the accuracy/outcome of the analysis? My plan, right or wrong, is to go up there with my corer and take test samples from all of it.
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Hi Lynn

Have you seen wide swings in testing separately?  If not, I think you may be okay, if they were cut at the same time, under the same conditions. Not clear that is the case though.  You plan for taking excess samples is a good one.

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Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 07:49 AM, Nancy C wrote: Have you seen wide swings in testing separately? 

Hi Nancy, 
I didn't see much variation in 2021 hay cut from different fields [ one field is right across the road from the other and the third field is down the road a bit]. Due to close proximity, I am assuming conditions are the same. Where I saw the variation was between 2021 first and second cuttings. Combined ESC and starch was 9.9 for first cutting....I had to soak it because even though technically it was safe it was too much for the boy. Next test for first cutting was combined ESC/Starch of 7.3. Second cutting was a combined ESC/starch of 4.6. He did fine with the lower numbers not soaking.

My drill batteries are charged up for testing the entire hay mow...LOL  Since it is all first cutting I'm interested to see what this year's number will be. I'm ready to soak if need be and the caregiver said soaking is no problem for her.
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Lynn I wonder if you could get the grower to mow some of the 2nd cutting early in the morning and have that stored seperetly from the stuff cut later in the day and then get the 2 different lots tested to see if early mowing makes much of a difference
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- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382

A decade or so ago, one of our members tested all of her multiple-hundreds of bales she had. Whew.

Edited to add: if it was mowed and put up at different times, identifying in general where one mow starts and another begins, might help.

I don't know if you need to go that far, but I would definitely over-test, were I in your situation. You probably know that time of day and time of season can make a difference in ESC. Agree with Frances that if you can get at least some of the second cut mowed real early -- we do ours at 4 am -- it could make a difference.
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Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022

Hi Frances,

That's a good idea Frances!  The problem is that my friends own the boarding facility. To save money, they bought used equipment [her husband can fix/restore anything) and are growing/cutting/baling and storing the hay themselves while juggling kids, the weather and full-time jobs [engineer and NICU nurse]. So when they cut is unfortunately something I can't broach with them.  Ugh.
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Nancy - just saw your follow-up - I must have scrolled down too fast.  Missed it the first time around. I did ask about general guidelines on where one mow ends and another starts....the husband said they literally mixed bales like a jenga tower......sigh....I didn't ask how that happened or why...LOLOL
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Well if you have any skills in haying equipment you could offer help. Besides everything else that's wrong is the shortage of help. I live in the middle of a hay exporting area and these huge farms have no time to bother with small local accounts. I see them haying a field with 6 machines at a time (cutting) and then comes fluffers, balers and harrowbeds all at the same time. It is a beehive of activity and I think they are trying to get the baled hay under cover as soon as possible to avoid the chance of rain. It seems they start cutting around 2 pm, perhaps because the grass is at its dryest at that time and therefore the bales are dryer and can be stored sooner without causing a fire in the haysheds. So what if the hay has a huge sugar content????? At least that very expensive hay to produce is safely in the barn and awaiting the next ordeal which is prepping to be shipped overseas.
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- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382

Hi Lynn, 

I want to relate a story about what happened to me with my oldest IR mare. I had a grower 45 minutes from me that produced great hay.  We would drive up, pick out hay, and bring back a pickup truck load to core and test.  Based on safe test results,  I would send a check for a large order, and he would deliver it. 

One year I could tell the load he delivered was not the hay I had picked up and tested.   My husband and I sorted it into what I thought were three different cuttings.  I cored and ran 3 different tests, and they all came back safe.  Well my mare had an acute laminitic event when I fed her this hay.  I started soaking and she improved somewhat , but never really improved until I found new hay for her. 

I'm a database administrator,  and we have a term for a situation like this we call GIGO (garbage-in-garbage-out).  Basically it means that if you're not sure of your data going into the test, you can't be confident of the results. 

My only reason in saying this is please be careful.  It didn't work for me in spite of all the tests I ran.

Carol Broyles 
August 2007
Spring Valley, Ohio 

Hi Frances and Carol -- Thank you both for your insightful comments. I was able to find out some more information today. My friends who own our barn - in addition to purchasing their own second-hand haying/baling equipment last year - also rented out the other 2 fields they are sourcing hay from.  I was unaware they had secured those other fields exclusively for our barn and are taking care of the growing, cutting, baling and storing for all those fields themselves. He said they did it because of some of the reasons you mentioned Frances. They wanted to better control costs, quality, timing etc., instead of being at the mercy of others. He came up in the hay mow with me and said after thinking about it and going out and looking at the bales he believes most if not all the bales in the hay mow came from the big field on the property. The first cutting hay from the other two fields is stored in one corner of the arena. He said hay has never and will never be cut in the morning. He said the earliest would be 4 p.m. but primarily it doesn't happen until after dinner. He said they will feed out of the hay mow first. Then start feeding out of the arena [I plan to sample that next in a separate test] he believes he can show me where bales from each field are sitting in the arena. Second cutting from the home field will also be stored in the hay mow when the time comes but they will finish feeding all of the first cutting before starting on second cutting. So I tested everything in the hay mow today since that is what will be fed first once the 100 bales or so of last year's hay is gone. I over sampled taking approximately 45 samples.[my arms couldn't do any more].  I started at the bottom and climbed up to the crossbeams - that's about as high as I could go - there were probably 2 more rows above the crossbeams. I agree Carol with your term GIGO which is what was happening in the years before last year [they were buying hay from everywhere]. That's why I was buying my own for a while. But now since they have three fields engaged there is no room.  I'm hoping that since I now know that the hay in the mow is from the same field and was cut/baled after 4 p.m. combined with the oversampling that I did ...that we will be okay.  If the tests come back on the high end then I will soak and I will keep a close eye on him for any symptoms. 

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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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