Marking the tip of the frog on distorted hooves


Mikaela Tapuska
 

After reading through the Wiki on getting good x-rays, I am planning on using either a thin wire or foil tape to clearly mark the outer margins of the hoof wall for our next set of x-rays. But in a foot where the frogs are elongated due to a chronic distorted hoof capsule, how would one determine the true point of the frog?

The recommended method I've used before is to measure 1" forward from where the bars end, but would that still apply to a laminitic hoof after coffin bone remodeling has occurred? 

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Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


 

Hi, Mikaela.
I had this question myself. Lavinia explained that for the purpose of marking the hooves for films, I don't need the "true tip of the frog," only the actual tip. It's a landmark for the trimmer to compare the films with the real foot. If you want to be extra careful, you can take sole and lateral shots shortly before or after the radiographs are shot. And just fyi, don't do any rasping or clean up of the hoof until after the trimmer's visit. You want the foot as unchanged as possible.
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Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
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Mikaela Tapuska
 

Oh, I see! So in that case, we currently have two front frogs in very different positions, as the LF frog recently just shed off and the RF frog is nearly stretched to the point of breakover now that we've changed the trim (solar shots below). Given that, would it still be advisable to go ahead and mark the tip of the frog on the RF if it's so close to where I will mark the dorsal wall meeting the ground surface?

LF - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/274255/3481229?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0
RF - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/274255/3481237?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0

Thank you! 

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Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


 

Yes, Mikaela. Mark the tip of the frog on the RF where it is, even if it's quite different from the LF. You are recording the real situation, not making any assessment of the true tip of the frog.

I want to be clear, so excuse the repetition. We don't mark the dorsal wall to show where it meets the ground surface. That is obvious on the film. The goal is to mark precisely where the hoof wall meets the coronary band at the very center of the dorsal wall to track the extent of sinking of the coffin bone within the hoof capsule. Some radiographs are so perfect you can see the hairline, but that doesn't always happen.

Here's an example of a marked lateral. I glue on little metal BB's. You can see two white dots. The straight marker on the dorsal wall is a specific length so my trimmer has a scale. https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/7296/3433048

There are many ways to do the same things. I've used thumbtacks with the sharp end cut off to mark the tip of the frog. A dot of barium paste can mark the junction of the coronary band and the top of the hoof wall.

Lavinia's mark-ups are an excellent education. Here's a good showing an approximation of the extent of sinking. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/282035 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
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Mikaela Tapuska
 

Sounds good, I will do that and thank you for the clarification! 

When I was reading the wiki, maybe I took it too literally when it mentioned marking the dorsal wall from the coronary band down to the ground surface? I was thinking to mark from the hairline of his coronet, down the dorsal wall and around the bevelled lamellar wedge, continuing to the point of breakover/ground surface. That way there would be no chance for the outline of any part of his hoof wall to look fuzzy in the x-rays. Although I suppose in all of Zahr's prior x-rays to date that hasn't really been an issue. But yes, I will certainly be sure to mark the junction of the hoof wall and coronary band!

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Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


 

Mikaela, you're exactly right about what the Wiki says. I excuse myself for contradicting it because I haven't seen a vet use an old style X-ray machine with film that had to be developed in almost a decade. Digital radiographs are usually so clear that they no longer require us to outline the hoof wall. Based on the images in your Photo Album, it looks like your vet uses a digital radiograph machine, so you'll be safe following my suggestions. If your vet used the older technology, then you'd be better off following the directions in the Wiki to outline the hoof wall.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
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Mikaela Tapuska
 

Thank you for taking the time to clarify, Cass. I was flipping through a book chapter that showed a lot of x-rays with the full barium paste outline, but then they would have been older photos so that makes a lot of sense as to why the hoof capsule was marked to that extent. So I will focus on the main "landmarks", then: the hairline of the dorsal hoof wall and the actual tip of the frog (ignoring the theoretical one). 

Much appreciated!
--
Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I use copper tape to outline the dorsal wall of the hoof from the coronary band to the tip of a frog.  The hoof needs to be clean and dry for the tape to stick.

https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=Copper+tape&ref=nb_sb_noss

I think I use 1/4" and cut it in half to 1/8", but next time I might try using just the 1/4" thickness so it shows up better.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
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Shaku's Case History
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Mikaela Tapuska
 

Kirsten, it was a previous post of yours that made me think to try it! I ordered some in a 10mm width and was going to cut that in half for the next set of x-rays (coming up on Monday, wish us luck).

That would be an idea, to go all the way from his hairline to the tip of his frog with one piece. Maybe I could carefully pull the tape across that piece of sole that is missing in front of his LF frog to make it work on that foot. Worst case scenario I could always secure it further with a second piece of non-metal tape.

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Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Once I have the copper tape and tack in place, I tape over it with lots of painter's tape, then put a sock and boot on so he can't accidentally scuff it off while waiting for rads.  My vet adds the nail just before doing the xray.  It takes an hour to get all 4 feet ready...and they must be dry.  The copper tape would show up better if I used the full thickness, you can see on Shaku's rads that it makes quite a fine line, and if the rad is shot perfectly perpendicular to the tape then potentially  nothing shows up because the tape is so thin (it could be put on in layers, too, to give it a higher profile).

Good luck!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album