I received a copy of the bloodwork today. I am alarmed to see his ACTH go from 8.55 in May 2022 to 135 at the end of Sept 2022.
Insulin is within normal range now; Leptin is lower, from 26.31 to 19.41
Is medication warranted?
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Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 

IME when dealing with high calorie hay, one needs to go beyond the 1.5-2% rule0of0thumb recs and calculate the actual calorie intake to the weight you are seeking.
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Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022

HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993

Stacey, I debated posing a question without following up with an answer but was hoping someone might respond with something more concrete.
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Thanks Martha. I was wondering the same. 
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Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 

I noticed something else, which may or may not be an issue.  We recommend feeding the larger amount of 2% of his ideal weight of 950# (19#) or 1.5# of his current weight of 1065# (15#).  He is presently getting 15# which is not the larger amount.  I realize this is counterintuitive and his hay is high calorie but I don’t know if this enters into his having a metabolism like an air fern.
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As others have said, the mineral balance in your hay is an issue and 1 scoop of Amino Trace + doesn't even come close to fixing it. In fact, it's making the Ca:P ratio worse.

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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."

Hi Stacey,

As Lavinia said, you should get recommendations from a diet balancer.  We've seen that the free Mad Barn service does not do a good job of balancing hay like yours.  Once you get proper recommendations, send those recommendations to Scott at Mad Barn and ask for a custom supplement.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
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It just means that an off-the-shelf supplement is not likely to be able to balance some of the imbalances in that hay.

You would be better off contacting one of the people trained to balance the diet - there is a list in the Files:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf

Any one of them can assist you, you just need to reach out to them.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Thank you. I’m not sure what that means then. 

I dont mind paying for an analysis- feed recommendations  
or should I go to MadBarn?--
Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 

Hi Stacey,

This hay is also very high calorie.

The iron isn't a problem but the manganese is more than double the iron, so it's causing issues.The calcium:phosphorus ratio is also inverted.

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Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Hi Dr. Kellon, no - I'm feeding the Terrace 2nd crop - 8.1 ESC & Starch.
I see the iron looks markedly higher than the other samples (?)
I know that the 3rd key - exercise needs to be increased. 
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Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 

If he is eating the hay from the analysis marked September, that's the problem. ESC + starch is 9.8 and it's very high calorie , about double what the usual hays we feed have. I would drop his hay to 12 pounds, use double hay nets and soak it for an hour before feeding.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."

Waiting on copy of bloodwork.
Baron's diet:
15lbs weighed grass hay; tested at 8.1 ESC & Starch fed in 1" nag bag & hay ball divided into 4 feedings
MadBarn Amino Trace - 1 scoop bid
MadBarn Jiaogulan - 1 scoop bid
Table Salt - 1 tbsp bid
1/2 cup ground flax bid
Vitamin E - Greenline 1/2 scoop bid
1/2 cup RSR Beet Pulp bid
Thank you for feedback
--
Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 

End of September is the peak of the seasonal ACTH rise so may well be normal but we really need to see both numbers. What is his "diet as per vet"? He's overweight, which is why his leptin is elevated. A 3 YO is highly unlikely to have PPID.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."

Bloodwork from end of September reportedly shows insulin is within reference range. ACTH is elevated. I was advised this is due to the seasonal rise and is non diagnostic at this time. Still has elevated leptin. 
I have asked for a copy of lab work but have not received it yet.
My horse is a 3 year old Morgan gelding - I would say he's now an upper end 6 on body condition.
I'm trying to remain calm... but...can this be a red flag considering his age and already having lamnitis/winter lamnitis/founder and IR?
Diet as per vet and ECIR guidelines remains in place. No access to grass, large sand paddock and riding ring.
Every day is a stressful day, watching the weather and deciding when to blanket, leg wrap and boot up. 
--
Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023