Date
1 - 15 of 15
Bloodwork Update - Insulin in normal limits/ACTH elevated
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I received a copy of the bloodwork today. I am alarmed to see his ACTH go from 8.55 in May 2022 to 135 at the end of Sept 2022.
Insulin is within normal range now; Leptin is lower, from 26.31 to 19.41 Is medication warranted? -- Stacey & Baron Terrace BC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 |
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IME when dealing with high calorie hay, one needs to go beyond the 1.5-2% rule0of0thumb recs and calculate the actual calorie intake to the weight you are seeking.
-- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022 HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993 |
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Stacey, I debated posing a question without following up with an answer but was hoping someone might respond with something more concrete.
-- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Thanks Martha. I was wondering the same.
-- Stacey & Baron Terrace BC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 |
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I noticed something else, which may or may not be an issue. We recommend feeding the larger amount of 2% of his ideal weight of 950# (19#) or 1.5# of his current weight of 1065# (15#). He is presently getting 15# which is not the larger amount. I realize this is counterintuitive and his hay is high calorie but I don’t know if this enters into his having a metabolism like an air fern.
-- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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As others have said, the mineral balance in your hay is an issue and 1 scoop of Amino Trace + doesn't even come close to fixing it. In fact, it's making the Ca:P ratio worse.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Hi Stacey,
As Lavinia said, you should get recommendations from a diet balancer. We've seen that the free Mad Barn service does not do a good job of balancing hay like yours. Once you get proper recommendations, send those recommendations to Scott at Mad Barn and ask for a custom supplement. -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
It just means that an off-the-shelf supplement is not likely to be able to balance some of the imbalances in that hay.
You would be better off contacting one of the people trained to balance the diet - there is a list in the Files: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf Any one of them can assist you, you just need to reach out to them. -- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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Thank you. I’m not sure what that means then. I dont mind paying for an analysis- feed recommendations |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Stacey,
This hay is also very high calorie. The iron isn't a problem but the manganese is more than double the iron, so it's causing issues.The calcium:phosphorus ratio is also inverted. -- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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Hi Dr. Kellon, no - I'm feeding the Terrace 2nd crop - 8.1 ESC & Starch.
I see the iron looks markedly higher than the other samples (?) I know that the 3rd key - exercise needs to be increased. -- Stacey & Baron Terrace BC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 |
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If he is eating the hay from the analysis marked September, that's the problem. ESC + starch is 9.8 and it's very high calorie , about double what the usual hays we feed have. I would drop his hay to 12 pounds, use double hay nets and soak it for an hour before feeding.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Waiting on copy of bloodwork.
Baron's diet: 15lbs weighed grass hay; tested at 8.1 ESC & Starch fed in 1" nag bag & hay ball divided into 4 feedings MadBarn Amino Trace - 1 scoop bid MadBarn Jiaogulan - 1 scoop bid Table Salt - 1 tbsp bid 1/2 cup ground flax bid Vitamin E - Greenline 1/2 scoop bid 1/2 cup RSR Beet Pulp bid Thank you for feedback -- Stacey & Baron Terrace BC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 |
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End of September is the peak of the seasonal ACTH rise so may well be normal but we really need to see both numbers. What is his "diet as per vet"? He's overweight, which is why his leptin is elevated. A 3 YO is highly unlikely to have PPID.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Bloodwork from end of September reportedly shows insulin is within reference range. ACTH is elevated. I was advised this is due to the seasonal rise and is non diagnostic at this time. Still has elevated leptin.
I have asked for a copy of lab work but have not received it yet. My horse is a 3 year old Morgan gelding - I would say he's now an upper end 6 on body condition. I'm trying to remain calm... but...can this be a red flag considering his age and already having lamnitis/winter lamnitis/founder and IR? Diet as per vet and ECIR guidelines remains in place. No access to grass, large sand paddock and riding ring. Every day is a stressful day, watching the weather and deciding when to blanket, leg wrap and boot up. -- Stacey & Baron Terrace BC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 |
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