updated kat rads and case history
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Hey team.
Hoof: I have updated 4 sets of xrays taken. One before the onset of laminitis and three since. there has been no additional rotation since the first set taken oct 21st, 2022. Kat is schedule to be shod next week and i have forwarded a copy of the latest xrays to his farrier. I have also uploaded hoof and body pics of kat. I still have to do the sole pics and can upload those tomorrow. any advice on shoeing for next week? Updated testing: I also updated his case history to reflect the fact he is now off all bute and gastroguard. My vet today would like him to remain on gabapentin until he is back next week. I uploaded his initial blood work results taken early sept 2022. we did blood work today and I will have the results of the ACTH/Glucose/Insulin/Leptin tests we did early next week and will upload. I am slowing getting everything into the case history. anything major missing? -- Carolyn, SC, oct 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carolyn%20and%20Kat |
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Thanks for posting all the new info, Carolyn! My personal advice on the shoeing for next week would be not to. And 3 of my 5 horses wear shoes. Is he uncomfortable without them? I suggest this because I don’t think his trim is optimal and correcting it would be better done if his feet could be accessed more frequently than a normal shoeing time frame. If you put him in boots with pads, he could remain comfortable while getting his trim to fit his foot better. I only saw one radiograph of a previous session. Do you have the radiographs available where the vet determined the rotation? Seeing the progression is helpful to us. You can contact Lavinia, our trim specialist, and ask her to take a look and offer her thoughts. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Hey Martha. How you guys are all so responsive to everyone is amazing!! I had actually uploaded 4 sets of xrays and I see them in our album (Carolyn and kat). Sept 14 (RF only as I thought we were dealing with an abscess) showed a healthy hoof, oct 21 (laminitis set in, rads of RF/LF both with rotation). So RF rotation was new since sept 14 and is around 3-4 degrees and no change since oct 21st. LF we have no baseline but as of Oct 21 is around 7 1/2 degrees and again no change since. He has actually had his front shoes on for years given the wet pastures down here were making his fronts flake. We had pulled his shoes in sept when we thought it was an abscess but he was sensitive so we ended up putting them back on with a leather pad on the RF . When the laminitis kicked in we didn’t dare touch his feet so his fronts are still on. He is walking very comfortably, off bute and even was playing in the dry lot with buddies given the winds yesterday. So our thought was to clean up his hoofs since they are getting long and put the shoes back on. He did go barefoot for about 8 years in NY when he first retired. And given I suspect he will not be returning to his “wet pasture” we could try going barefoot again possibly with boots and pads to start. We live in a less populated area and its hard to get farriers to come our way. We have a terrific farrier but not sure if I will be able to get him here any earlier then 4/5 week cycle. Will contact Lavinia next. Just need to figure out how 😂
-- Carolyn, SC, oct 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carolyn%20and%20Kat |
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https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help
-- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
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Sorry, Carolyn. You are absolutely correct. There are three very similar sets of L/R lateral radiographs and the first RF lateral and dorsal on different dates. Not sure why I couldn’t sort that out earlier. Whenever I see a post from you, I wonder if you would be interested in how many Carolyn’s I have in my immediate family (mother, daughter, sister and a number of cousins). Now that I have shared that, I can get back to business, haha. The rotation I see is more of a trimming issue which is why I thought it best to skip shoes for now. Having long toes brings the breakover forward and the shoes just add to that. In that situation, the toes will act as a pry bar, pulling the the hoof capsule away from the bones inside and stressing the lamina. Bringing the toe back a bit more frequently is something many of our members do themselves, in between farrier trims. You don’t need to touch the sole - in fact it needs to grow more and shouldn’t be touched. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Love all the Carolyn’s in your life. I actually only know a few. Now I am going to have to search “do it yourself trimming”.
-- Carolyn, SC, oct 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carolyn%20and%20Kat |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
HI Carolyn,
Some observations regarding Kat's current situation. There isn't any bony column rotation, nor was there any in the earlier rads. Bony column rotation is when the coffin bone dips down out of alignment with the rest of the the pastern bones above it. There was some capsular rotation present, which means that the hoof capsule is pulling away from a tight attachment to the bony column, with the distance between the coffin bone and the hoof wall increasing as you travel from the coronary band to the ground. This is a trim issue caused by the toes being much further ahead than where the bony column dictates they should to be. Toes need to be backed up, usually thru what appears to be the white line at ground level, in order to move the breakover closer to the tip of the frog. The RF toe has improved slightly from the earlier rads, the LF has not. Both fronts appear to be laterally high currently, although the photos angle isn't ideal to assess this clearly. The Sept rad did confirm this regarding the RF. Both hinds appear to be medially high, a common issue, in the current photos. Soles are thin on both fronts, which hasn't changed from the earlier rads. Sinking is present in all the rads but because the coronary bands were not marked, it's hard to discern whether that has increased or not.If it has, it doesn't appear to have been by much. The sinking is contributing to the thin soles. Heels are underrun on all four feet. The shoeing is not helping the situation, as the shoes are being placed too far ahead of where the breakover needs to be, which is increasing the leverage on the dorsal lamina and continuing to pull the dorsal walls away from their attachments to the coffin bones. Regarding the flaking of the soles you were seeing: that wasn't a problem, it was the feet adapting to a different environment. The flaking was exfoliating sole coming off in larger chunks due to it being more moist instead of being constantly abraded away in smaller amounts by a drier, harder environment. Shoeing would not be recommended, esp. as keeping the trim interval short enough to make the needed corrections is problematic. Boots and pads, as needed, would make more sense. If you'd like mark-ups in time for upcoming the trim on Th, I'll need a full set of hoof photos as described here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472 For the laterals and dorsals, the horse needs to be standing as squarely as possible, with the cannon bone included in the shot. -- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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Lavinia. Thanks so much for this. I will take better updated pics tomorrow and post. This is super helpful
-- Carolyn, SC, oct 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carolyn%20and%20Kat |
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