Date
1 - 8 of 8
HTMA
|
To elaborate further, High Point Grass on top of a balanced mineral intake will only upset it. It's nonsense that N-acetyl-cysteine would not be bioavailable without it. NAC is the precursor for glutathione, Milk Thistle is a liver support herb, no idea what Bio Char is supposed to be. More important overall is that liver issues cannot be diagnosed by HMA (need blood work) and even if they existed would not explain EMS.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
|
|
|
I totally agree with Nancy.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
|
|
|
Glad you weighed back in.
I just wanted to add that this appears to be a rather expensive journey. Functional Nutrition Therapy Practitioner would be a holistic approach that does not have a lot of evidence, at least that I am aware of. I think I read that your practitioner was expecting results in 30-60-90 days with blood work at those points to verify. I'd be asking her and my vet for evidence of others who have gone through and been helped on this protocol. I would not care about names which obviously need to be protected for privacy, but I'd want hard data such as: what time of year the program was begun and continued, breed, age, sex, lab results with specific temp info at time of blood draw, showing the insulin was controlled after this program. Not sure how Dr Kellon's balancing would dovetail with all the changes you list above, but I may be missing something. I assume the High Point is recommended by the Practitioner, yes? I love HorseTech, get my custom done by them, but the High Point does not have enough magnesium to balance the calcium in the product. I know this might appear to be rather invasive, but I've been down this road before which shapes my need for a lot more info. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022 HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993 |
|
|
|
Kimberly
Hi Nancy, we pulled blood for a full blood workup, SNAP and Lyme tests on Friday as these recommendations were reasonable to me. While I have tested Mouse before, it has been a few years so safe was the way to go. We were cautious on vaccinations this fall and will continue to be cautious or use titers although as I understand it, titers are better served in dogs. The "detoxifying" protocol is quite elaborate as well as the diet changes. The Glutathione protocol consists of N-Acetyl-Cysteine, Milk Thistle (whole seeds) and a bio-char called OGS. I am told I have to start feeding HorseTech's High Point Grass mineral supplement in order for the NAC to be bio-available. All of our hay has been balanced by Dr. Kellon and we are using her recommedations for mineral supplements balanced to our hay. We are currently feeding Mouse and Ryn the 6.4 % ESC/starch combined. Starch is .4. As we grow our own hay we test our soil and apply only what is needed. If we buy hay to supplement, we are pretty good about buying only form reputable growers we know. We are on city water and I have access to the water reports for the last 10-12 years so I doubt the water is a huge factor. I need to update my CH's for both. Thanks for the info on detoxification as they were informative. I have a pretty good track record of getting most of my data from the National Library of Medicine, Center for Biotechnology Information. I try to stay pretty up to date. The nutritionist is a Functional Nutrition Therapy Practitioner. If you or Dr. Kellon have thoughts on the above please chime in!!! Thanks for the reply! Kimberly
Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kimberly%20and%20Mouse https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275222 |
|
|
|
OK. Sorry missed that you had read the hair analysis info.
Lyme disease can cause laminitis. My understanding though is that insulin is not raised dramatically as with PPID for example, and that the mechanism is not well understood. That said, testing would make sense if searching for answers for continued laminitis. Titers are a reasonable alternative to vaccines in general and I would postpone vaccinating if he were actively laminitic. It is honestly hard for me to connect the dots on the rationale behind many of the other conclusions and suggestions. I do not believe hair analysis can show most of what is being described, and if it does, since the body is always trying to maintain equilibrium, it is historical not current. I am very skeptical of "detoxify" recommendations. The first link spells it out. https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/liver-cleansing/ https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/proper-detox-is-the-key-to-a-healthy-horse/ Not clear what the "glutathione protocol" is. Glutathione is closely tied to Vitamin E and Selenium so you'd want to make sure you are supplying these adequately. Some horses need higher amounts of vitamin E. Status of can be checked in blood work. Dr Kellon has posted so articles in the archives over the years. I am confused about which hay you are feeding. What is in the file is just at or above 10% ESC and starch. I think you referenced lower hay elsewhere. If you are feeding the June hay in the file, it is likely too high for them. You mentinoed your hay is balanced and I have assumed this is by someone who follows Dr Kellon's recs. Not clear in the CH. About fertilizing....I have found feeding the soil after determining what it needs by testing, to be hugely helpful in getting a good, nutritious crop, reducing harmful components like iron and manganese. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022 HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993 |
|
|
|
Kimberly
Thanks Nancy. I had reviewed these prior to agreeing to do the analysis. Mainly to keep the peace. I knew to take the results with a grain of salt but the recommendations were specific so I wanted input from all of you. Many thanks.
-- Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kimberly%20and%20Mouse https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275222 |
|
|
|
Hi Kimberly
While waiting for Dr Kellon, we have some good reading in the files, one of which is Dr Kellon's excerpt from her NRC Plus course on Hair Analysis. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Hair%20Analysis See the third file for her NRC Plus excerpt. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022 HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993 |
|
|
|
Kimberly
I am sending this in order to get some advice on what a hair mineral analysis may or may not show. I had both Ryn and Mouse tested by a lab in TX, I believe Trace Minerals, INC. This is from the party that is looking into Mouse and Ryn's insulin numbers. My questions would be, can a HTMA disclose this information, can it disclose chronic inflammation, heavy metals and a vitamin and mineral deficiency? Their hay is tested and balanced. Can a tick borne disease cause IR? Does Mouse's liver need to be detoxified and if so how can we be sure? I do not know what the NAC is? We are on city water and I have looked at the tests. We grow our own hay and have not fertilized in the last few years and do not use chemical herbicides. I can ask the one hay supplier that we buy hay from but seems like all of our horses would be in trouble if that were a factor? Mouse is not being vaccinated and I have asked for the results of the HTMA from the party which came directly from the lab. Nothing yet. Any thoughts and is this reasonable? I have researched what I can find. Dr. Kellon, any thoughts?
Redacted from the nutritionist: 'Just very, very, very briefly, I see in Mouse's HTMA results that he has an extremely high potassium which is an indication of severe, chronic inflammation and usually that means they've "gone over the edge" into laminitic events. In addition to the elevated potassium, we have a significant amount of heavy metals built up within the body which are likely the root cause of the vitamin/mineral deficiency he has, and the "uncontrollable" elevation in insulin. To be safe, I would recommend calling Dr. XXXXX and asking her/him to draw blood for both a 4DX SNAP and a Lyme Multiplex to Cornell. I am happy to chat with her/him about this if you or she wishes. I know you have tested previously, but I just want to be sure it's not a factor at this time.
What I'd like to do as soon as possible, is start Mouse on my Glutathione protocol. We can go over what that's accomplishing in the morning, but it will help remove those heavy metals and detoxify the liver so we can bring those insulin levels down. I have everything on hand that you'll need for the protocol so I can ship that to you and it should be there on Saturday. I'll call in the protocol for the NAC to my dispensary and they'll send you an email with ordering and dosing directions. We're going to do this protocol for 60 days. Dr. XXXX should recheck Insulin/Glucose at the 30 day mark, and again at the 60 day mark.
If you don't already, let's get a carbon filter on your water pumps so we're filtering the water they're drinking. This will help reduce any exposure to metals coming from the water. I would also talk to your hay supplier and ask them what type/brand fertilizer they are using, and whether or not the fields are sprayed at any stage with Glyphosate or other herbicides.
I will touch base with Dr. XXXX sometime next week to recap all of this, but for the next 18 months I would recommend not vaccinating Mouse. You could have Dr. XXXX draw blood for vaccine titers instead.
We can go over in depth this protocol and the rest of the details tomorrow, but I wanted to give you a heads up that I'm going to get things shipped to you so we can start promptly. I'll get your summary and results uploaded to their charts before the end of the day tomorrow.'
Any input is appreciated. Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kimberly%20and%20Mouse https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275222 |
|
|