Recently I made a post asking about Alfala vs. Timothy Pellets and got good answers about why I should not feed Alfalfa. 

Then I asked about stabul 1 vs. standlee Timothy pellets. Dr. Kellon suggested that the Timothy at times may be too high in S/S. 

On the facebook post about evaluating safe feeds I asked about stabul 1 vs. Standlee Teff pellets. And it was suggested that the Teff might be better since its S/S is lower than stabul 1. 

Everyone has said to feed as little of whatever carrier possible. Some have suggested that it should not matter which carrier I use too much because I am only feeding 1-2 lbs of it anyway. 

I feel like I have received conflicting information. I understand that Standlee's numbers are an average of several batches. Do we know if Stabul 1 does more frequent testing and therefore is actually safer? Why is stabul 1 on the safe feeds list and not Timothy or Teff pellets that show lower S/S on their tags? 

I just want to pick the feed that truly is the safest or lowest S/S carrier feed and I'm still feeling like I don't know what is the best option. 

Thanks for helping me understand better. 
--
Anna Warzecha, MI, 2022

Joker (IR), Coco (PPID, IR)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anna%20Warzecha:%20Joker%20%28IR%29,%20Coco%20%28PPID%29

Anna,did you ask about soy hull pellets,or would they not serve your purpose?

--
Lorna in Eastern Ontario
2002

Hi Anna,     Most times when people refer to supplement carriers they are referring to a handful or so and not talking about 1  or 2 lbs.   At a smaller rate all of the safe feeds should work but if your going to feed 1-2 lbs it really depends on how your horse reacts to them.. My gelding can not have that much Stabul 1 but a cup of it is fine for his supplements.--
Debbie Girard   Massachusetts  2022

Hi Anna,
Your questions are good ones. 
Here is what I understand on the safe feeds.  Stabul 1 was developed after conversations between the owner of Anderson Feed company and Dr. Kellon, who was trying to develop a hard feed for people to use in boarding situations a decade ago. Stabul 1 was developed, then Stabul 2 for horses needing more protein. The emphasis has always been to keep S/S 10% or below for the feed and members sending in different batches of it over the years have found it always to be below 10%. Anderson Feed company makes NUZU feeds for zoos, where diet is also critical to health of endangered animals, so the company understands the needs of animals with specific diets.  I do not know how frequently they test, but testing results done by members here has been consistent. 

Timothy pellets are sometimes marketed as low starch, low sugar, but are made by different mills across the country whose emphasis is not on maintaining an absolute limit of starch, sugar, etc.but instead of creating a clean pellet that safe for livestock to eat. They may have a guaranteed analysis on the bag, but I just looked at four brands, Standlee, Haystack, Seminole, and Mountain Sunrise, and none include sugar and starch on their guaranteed analysis. Therefore, it is unknown what the range of s/s is in the pellets. In the last growing season, Equi Analytical analyzed 52 samples of Timothy pellets and the average S/S is below 10%. and even the over 10% was only in the 12 % range. BUT it's only 52 samples. You might get a bag that is much higher than that. Chances are no, but it's possible.

There is no absolute answer on feeds. The group tries to provide as much info as possible so members can make informed decisions. but my experience with horses has shown perfection is impossible. For example, once I was able to get Stabul 1 for my herd. they ate it for a couple months, then decided they didn't like it.I ended up selling my unused bags to another member here locally. I have experimented with various combinations of carrier and supplements and have finally settled on what's working for me for now. Beet pulp, pelleted balancer, and Cavalor's Fiber Force. The Fiber Force claims to be 8% and members testing has demonstrated that. But it's not guaranteed by Cavalor, just claimed and posted on the guaranteed analysis. Starch is at 5% which is over the recommendation here, but again, they are getting a pound a day and  will eat their beet pulp and supplements and I am not worrying about that extra 1 %.

You have to balance perfection vs reality. 


--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .

Curretly Joker gets 1 cup of stabul 1 and 1 cup of timothy pellets with each feed (AM & PM). So that totals 1.3 lbs daily. He used to get Metformin mixed in and needed more carrier than just 1 cup to eat that but now he is on steglatro and I think I could cut him back to just 1 cup now, but I'm trying to figure out what type of food that 1 cup should be. 
--
Anna Warzecha, MI, 2022

Joker (IR), Coco (PPID, IR)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anna%20Warzecha:%20Joker%20%28IR%29,%20Coco%20%28PPID%29

They may have a guaranteed analysis on the bag, but I just looked at four brands, Standlee, Haystack, Seminole, and Mountain Sunrise, and none include sugar and starch on their guaranteed analysis. Therefore, it is unknown what the range of s/s is in the pellets.

I just looked at the guaranteed analysis of Standlee Teff Hay pellets and it lists ESC and starch. I thought that’s what we were supposed to be looking at? I’m starting Dr. Kellon’s class for Cushings and IR tomorrow but am on my way to the feed store soon and have been using the Standlee Teff Hay pellets (2 cups/day) as one of the carriers. If I should be looking at something different on the guaranteed analysis I should probably know sooner rather than later :)

Thanks for your help/clarification!
--
Carolyn L in UT 2022

Case History: CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Case History

Photo Album: CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Photo Album

Yes, the Premium Teff pellets do have a guaranteed ESC + starch max and are OK to use. They should be added to our safe feeds.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."