Date
1 - 20 of 35
Should I encourage more movement?
|
Hi Carly,
The yard is still good for her mental health, even if she's not moving around much. Don't use the boots she dislikes unless you are experimenting with different padding and find she's more comfortable. Really thick pads are not necessarily better as Cass said because they can force constant frog-sole pressure even when the hoof is lifted, especially if the boots are snug. If she's happy in the Flexboots, then that's good enough. I do think she should have boots on to minimize concussion stresses on the damaged lamellae, and to prevent sinking, which WILL thin her front soles. Boots with pads may help reduce these effects. -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
|
|
|
Cindy Giovanetti
She is so pretty!
Cindy -- Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas On ECIR protocol since 2/19 https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/ History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125 |
|
|
|
Carly
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 11:19 AM, Cass in NorCal wrote:
Sorry, Carly, let me be clearer. Quest has shown us she wants to buck and play. I would never turn her out at liberty on concrete after her performance in the arena. While I don’t think walking on concrete will damage her if she’s 100% controlled and hand-walked, there are too many risks to her safety to be at liberty. IMO. She has been out in the concrete yard, shuffling around and mostly standing by another stable trying to get hay. She would absolutely never run and buck in the yard, it's small and she's really not that kind of horse, even after box rest! My concern is that she doesn't walk around the yard enough - she just tries to find hay. The school is entirely different though - she will buck and play there. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Sorry, Carly, let me be clearer. Quest has shown us she wants to buck and play. I would never turn her out at liberty on concrete after her performance in the arena. While I don’t think walking on concrete will damage her if she’s 100% controlled and hand-walked, there are too many risks to her safety to be at liberty. IMO.
-- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos |
|
|
|
Carly
Thanks Lesley. No, Mark ups are next. I need more photos. I couldn't get my trimmer to help as it turned out she'd booked me on her day off so it was a special visit and I didn't want to ask more of her. But now she's more comfortable and I'm learning standing on concrete won't damage her, I can tie her on the yard and do it all myself. I must do it ASAP!
-- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly
Thanks Cass. It's good to know that if she is happy to walk barefooted on concrete, it's okay to let her. I'd just like to let her wander around a bit if she wants to, a few times a day. Her recovery has been so sudden and dramatic I'm not prepared for next steps. She won't go crazy on the concrete - she really is a very quiet and sedate horse most of the time!
When I have more sedalin I'll take her in the sand school more often, for longer periods. I never lunge her - she hates it. When I work with her, it's mainly been walk in-hand and at liberty, with targets, stand mats, poles etc. I won't do that for a while yet. It's not exercise as such, but things to encourage movement. If it turns out she's happy to do things with lower insulin, I am hoping I'll eventually be able to return to proper in-hand work with her which we haven't done for ages. I don't have anyone to help me, but I don't expect that she'll always be like she was that first time. If she's sedated the next few times, she'll get used to it and be calmer. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Hi Carly
Contacting Flex Boots to see if they can come up with something more supportive for Quest’s feet sounds like a good idea, as Trisha suggested. It’s going to be trial and error to see what makes her most comfortable, but she seems to be voting for Flex Boots at the moment. Some horses need padded inserts to improve the comfort of their boots, but for others pads can make things worse. Hopefully others might chip in here with their experiences of what worked and what didn't. I was wondering if you’ve had a set of trim mark-ups from Lavinia yet - apologies if I missed that. If not, that would be a great next step to take. Well done for getting Quest to a much better place. -- Lesley and over the bridge Omar, ECIR Group Primary Response, 11-2012, Highland, UK Omar - Case History |
|
|
|
Hi, Carly. We can’t answer your question about the most comfortable boots and pads or about walking on concrete barefoot. The only answer is to let Quest tell you because she will know how it feels. More padding, softer padding, isn’t necessarily better. Each horse is different. Very soft padding can apply constant frog pressure. To the extent we know, the frog is designed for pressure-release. Trial and error is the advice I can offer. Pain from movement should be self-limiting, assuming you’re not forcing movement or exercise. I far prefer natural footing to concrete because of better grip and give. This is especially important before you have a good physiologic trim in place with a young exuberant horse who has been in confinement. You must prevent bucking, galloping and other overexhuberant behavior on concrete or any place. For your safety and for Quest’s, I don't recommend leaving her at liberty on concrete. I recommend the advice and assistance of an experienced horse person who can handle and control that big mare, with a strict prohibition against formal exercise, especially on a lunge line. — |
|
|
|
Carly
I guess, more simply, one of my questions is: what would happen if she was to walk (of her own choice) on concrete without boots?
-- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly
Hi Trisha,
Thanks, yes that's them. They do make EVA pads, though they're quite thin and soft https://hoofbootique.co.uk/flexpad-eva-soft-hoof-boot-pads-pair/ I have a soft pair of pads and firmer pair, though I can get new ones if the boots themselves will be okay. I'll write to the company though - that's a good idea. I just didn't know if they really need the chunky boots for rehab. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Trisha DePietro
Hi Carly. Are these the boots you are referring to?
-- https://www.flexhoofboots.com/ If yes, I would call the company and ask them if they make inserts for the soles. I quickly looked at this boot site and didn't see if they offer anything like that, but because these seem to be custom made- they may have a product they could fashion for you. Your goal is to continue to support the hoof from the sole, frog, etc. They seem to have access to lots of different materials. And, you never know, another laminitic owner could have already asked them and they have something....You might need to experiment. But if she likes the flex boots, then I would try to modify those to be more supportive. Hope that helps. Let us know how your little ballerina makes out....:) Trisha DePietro Aug 2018 NH Primary Responder Dolly and Hope's Case Histories Dolly's Photos Hope's Photos HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993 |
|
|
|
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 08:23 AM, Carly wrote:
I don't really know to be honest!Carly, that's the best place to start. Really! I'm not a boot guru, and having seen your girl's recent 'dancing' I'm not sure what to say.But there are others here who can help untangle our thoughts. I'm wondering,too,if she doesn't like her other boots because they hurt in some way,even just a bit? -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 |
|
|
|
Carly
I don't really know to be honest! other than my understanding that boots with thick pads are needed for horses with laminitis, and that I could use them instead of shoes and she shouldn't go barefoot on concrete.
But I don't really understand the mechanics of any of it, I'm quite confused by this stage of laminitis and don't know what to do! She used to always wear her flex boots for her daily in-hand walks as the drive is stony, her hinds are thin-soled (I'd assumed fronts would be the same but turns out they're not), and to generally encourage healthy hoof growth (stimulating frog etc). Apparently they're equivalent to human barefoot shoes in that they can feel the ground. I'd assumed that boots with thick pads would cushion the hoof and be more comfortable while things recover. If each step hurts, then flex would only make things a little bit better, even either pads. But I don't know if she'd be in any pain now, or whether boots prevent additional damage being done? Fusions and clouds are so big and clunky, they look like they'd be really cushioning and comfortable. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Hi Carly,
I think you have to establish why you are using the boots.What purpose do you want them to serve? For example,what do you mean that the flex boots don't offer support? Support for? But they have pads.Maybe the pads improve comfort? Just trying to help you sort it out. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 |
|
|
|
Carly
Thanks Leslie, helpful advice.
I haven't risked the school again yet, even with sedalin - I'll talk to the vet and get more prescribed tomorrow. But this sudden improvement has me thinking about next steps sooner than I thought. If I could get her calm, maybe I can now think about a small grass free area outside for her? Not sure what to do about boots though. She really hates the front ones and goes to the back of the stable when I get them out. It takes ages to convince her to put them on, when ideally I want to quickly pop them on so she can go for a little walk often. If it takes 10 mins to boot her it's not going to work! Today I offered her her normal flex boots and she was happy to wear them, but they're so flexible there's no support (they do have pads in though). The fusions have eva mat pads but my EP cut a toe gap as she said this helped the boots fit as well as being more comfortable for her. Should I try cut it straight across so no toe pillars? Try with no pad? Try a thinner pad? Get bigger boots? Let her go out barefoot sometimes (concrete yard)? -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
It's wonderful to see her feeling so much better - good luck with persuading her to walk in hand in a straight line!
One thing I found with Sedalin was that if Omar was already a little bit over-excited before he had his dose it didn't help at all, and maybe even souped him up a bit more. If I caught a quiet moment to give it to him, before he anticipated a temporary release from prison was on the cards, it worked well to keep him calm during our therapeutic walks. -- Lesley and over the bridge Omar, ECIR Group Primary Response, 11-2012, Highland, UK Omar - Case History |
|
|
|
The Sedalin is an oral gel. You will have to give between 25 and 50 mg and onset of sedation will depend on how much is in her stomach.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January |
|
|
|
Carly
Hi Cass,
I genuinely didn't think she was feeling well enough to do anything like that! She just kept on galloping and flying around until my yard owner went to get her and stopped her. Prior to laminitis if I turned her out in the school she'd try find a snack on the trees or just stand by the gate. She didn't move much at all. I am pleased she didn't run down a gravel road though!!! I can't imagine! -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly
Dr Kellon, My vet has given me sedalin in a syringe before - I have a little left, will this be the same?
-- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Don’t feel bad. She needed that. Quest is a much younger and bigger mare than mine, so using sedation makes perfect sense. I’m sorry I didn’t warn you to expect Quest to roll, pop up and give a small rodeo. That isn’t a disaster. It’s a lesson on the hazards of rehabbing a young otherwise healthy horse. You didn’t break her. She gave you a preview. Recovery isn’t a straight line. Mine had a paddock breakout and galloped around the barn and down the gravel road before returning through the barn at a canter into her stall. She wasn’t wholly mended yet, resumed some time down in the shavings with sore feet. But she was roughly 2 weeks from being able to be in full time turnout on her drylot without spending hours down in the shavings every day and 4 weeks from full time barefoot turnout. Quest’s recovery schedule will be unique to her, obviously involving ways to manage burning off the jet fuel. Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 |
|
|