Date
1 - 10 of 10
Re-thinking Remy's Diet
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hmmatthews2003@...
I thought I had Remy's diet pinned down pretty good and, turns out, maybe not. I took what I thought was a 'fun' photo of him and was shocked and saddened at how truly awful and gaunt he looks. He's lost considerable muscle, top-line, and overall tone. By way of brief background, Rem's been non-ridden for several years, so doesn't typically have a super muscular physique. He's had just one bout of lami, due to IR, about 1-1/2 years ago and has come back wonderfully from that. But I feel I can (need to) do better with his diet. For the last several months, he's been getting Mad Barn AT+, 6 oz flax, 4.5 oz split green peas, Vitamin E, and 2T salt per day, along with ~2% body weight of first cut hay. And his muscle and topline have really gone downhill. I've posted pictures in the photo gallery (Heidi and Remy) so y'all can see just how bad he looks now. I feel like I need to start over with something other than AT+ as the 'foundation.' Where do I even start? Is there an advantage of sticking with a ration balancer vs. grain? Any help to get me started in the right direction would be much appreciated.
-- ~ Heidi October 2021, New Hampshire Remy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Remy |
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Hi Heidi,
Can you provide a link to the pictures ?Or is it just me? I couldn't find them. I am also interested in his lab numbers for ACTH. Nothing has been entered in his CH since August 2021. Have you had him tested more recently? I just wonder if PPID has anything to do with what you describe. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 |
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Here is Heidi and Remy’s photo album. https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=283943 Heidi, you can help ECIR volunteers by copying and pasting that link into you automatic signature and saving the change. Then everyone can find your photos. Your automatic signature is here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub -- |
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hmmatthews2003@...
PPID hasn't been a concern. Latest labs are from 31-May-2022:
ACTH 15.3 pg/mL (reference interval 2-30) Insulin 22.87 uIU/mL (reference interval 10-40) Leptin 6.97 ng/mL (reference interval 1-10) -- ~ Heidi October 2021, New Hampshire Remy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Remy |
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hmmatthews2003@...
Thank you for the recommendation! Automatic signature is updated with the photo album link.
-- ~ Heidi October 2021, New Hampshire Remy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Remy |
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Heidi, did you hit Save after you updated your automatic signature? The album link doesn't show up yet.
-- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 |
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Hi Heidi,
I was going to suggest PPID from your description and the fact that his earlier ACTH was weirdly low for the time of year. It would be helpful if you added your more recent blood testing data to your CH. You could also do a TRH stim test to see if he’s early/borderline PPID. When Cass posted a link to your photo of Remy, I didn’t think he looked as gaunt as I was expecting. His body score looks good. Is there a reason he isn’t being ridden? I see he is on Thyro L which we recommend for jump starting weight loss. What is the reasoning behind that? If you decide to discontinue it, do it with a very gradual taper as the horse adjusts to that dose and needs time to accommodate a lower one or none at all. Why is he on Equiox? Has he been uncomfortable and, if so, do you find the NSAID helps? One step you don’t seem to have taken wrt his diet is to balance his hay. It needs to be tested using traditional wet chem techniques using the 603 test from Equinox Analytical or something comparable. With that data in hand, one can determine what additions are needed to balance the minerals. Not only do they need to be present in adequate amounts but their relative ratios to each other need to be maintained in a suitable balance. This seemingly small step can make a world of difference to the horse. I use a Uckele balancer which I then modify to best suit my hay. That changes from crop to crop. Once your hay has been balanced, you may find that you don’t need a ration balancer (which balances nothing) but rather a small amount of a tasty carrier, such as Stabul 1 or beet pulp, to which you can add the missing minerals. As he is IR, he shouldn’t have grain, especially as he’s not being worked. I also add Uckele Tri Amino to my horses’ mix. There are other similar products which feature the most likely to be needed amino acids for building protein and muscle function. -- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Hi Heidi,
I think Remy looks pretty good, especially since he is an IR horse. I know when my horse finally got down to the weight his vet wanted, I felt like he looked skinny, but now that I'm used to seeing him not fat, he looks great. My horse is a lot more ribby than Remy, and is a 4.5 body score, which is what my vet wants him at. My horse being thinner took getting used to. He was far too overweight for the past 10 years or so, and it crept up on him, so I was "blind" to it, if you know what I mean. I think you're doing a good job, and Remy looks good. Regards! Joy -- Joy and Willie (EC/IR) Nevada County, CA - 2019 ECIR Group Moderator Case history: Willie's Case History Willie's photo album: Willie's Photos |
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I'm sure his ribs are more obvious when he isn't standing with his legs underneath him like he is on that platform but he would still be a 4.5 and doesn't look gaunt or muscle wasted to me either. He has a rather large head which makes the rest of his body look small but if you look at the picture with the head blocked off his neck, legs and body are proportional.
The AT+ isn't the foundation of his diet; his hay is. To know if anything is missing, test your hay. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January |
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I agree he looks fine. His topline and muscling look pretty normal to me for a horse not in work. What a sweet face he has! Shaku has a large head, too, and when they stand with their legs under them like that it's not very flattering.
-- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
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