Advice and clarification needed please


Anette
 

Hello, Superman is going in today to have his ACTH checked and an extensive CBC done. Vet tech called this morning to say that Cornell said they have to use protirelin,wait and then draw blood again. I don't understand why Cornell is saying this ,Dr. said he hasn't had them do this before either. Vet doesn't have protirelin on hand and has to order it. Does Superman need this test? Earlier this year I wanted the TRH test done because he shows symptoms of PPID but the test numbers said he didn't have it. In NC. vets can't have protirelin ,I was informed that they could get it from human hospitals but at that point decided to just start him on 1/4 a pill of Pergolide. 
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Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


 

Anette, has anyone mentioned that trucking to an ACTH testing will not give reliable results?  No one knows exactly why but that’s what’s been observed so we discourage that.  If the vet can’t come to your horse, we suggest drawing the blood at home yourself or finding a vet tech who can come to your house to draw it.  After drawing the blood, it needs special handling care to not degrade the sample.  Trucking generally leads to elevated results and inadequate care leads to lower results.
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Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Anette
 

I knew trailering wasn't the best because it can stress them but he is an experienced traveler so I hoped it wouldn't effect him. I didn't know that we could draw the blood ourselves though. will the vet give us the tube? I also have a friend who is a tech so she could do it which I 'd thought of but didn't know if she'd get in trouble with the Dr. I am aware that the sample has to be processed within four hours.
 He went and they drew blood for the ACTH and insulin, a CBC and an equine chem 15. What is that exactly? I think it's to test his liver? They said those were fine . Just waiting for ACTH results now . Dr. said he needs to be on senior feed and 747 because he is underweight. He is getting oats,beet shreds,Tim cubes,and vitamins and minerals balanced to the hay so I don't think the 747 is necessary but what about the senior? I'm not certain if he is IR but am trying to feed as if he were to avoid any problems. Is Purina Senior safe ? We already feed that to another so it'd be ideal to give Superman the same if it's safe for him. 
TIA everyone
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Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


 

Hi Anette,
Apparently no one knows exactly what aspect of trailering causes the ACTH to be elevated, just that it does.  If you have a vet tech from a small animal hospital come, they will most likely know the routine.  Your vet may be happy to send you home with instructions and the correct tubes.  You will then need to have the vet send the sample to Cornell under their own account.
As Superman been diagnosed PPID and you’re having difficulty keeping weight on him, I would suspect he might be due for an increase in pergolide.  As PPID and IR are often seen together, the same diet is recommended for both.  My vet also recommended Purina Senior to put weight on my PPID horse.  We don’t have anything Purina on the recommended list here because it tends to be too high in sugars and starch.  You are feeding him timothy cubes - are those the ones that are balanced?  The balanced ones seem to do well at adding weight but, if it’s PPID related, more pergolide is really what will help.  The non balanced timothy cubes would need frequent testing to assure they are safe to feed.  Two bags are rarely the same.
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Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Anette
 

Next time he's tested I will look into those other options. He lost weight after he was moved to pasture 24/7 and gradually  reduced to one feeding a day instead of two. At first he held it but then started loosing. We separated him from his pasture mate to eat with no change then we started increasing his one meal and had him tested again. He was tested before and aside from the thyroid being a bit higher than the vet liked everything was normal. The second test came back fine,but he had symptoms,that's when the vet said I could start him on 1/4 a pill to see if that helped. The Tim cubes are the TCN Balanced,perhaps increasing those will help? Cost ,unfortunatly is a factor and everything has gone up recently :( 
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Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Annette,

When was Superman last dewormed, and when were his teeth last checked?  The weight loss coinciding with a move to pasture suggests he's just not getting the calories he needs.  Since pasture is so much higher in moisture than hay,  horses need to eat a lot more of it.  Most horses seem to have no trouble with this and easily put on weight on pasture, but if there is something else affecting his grass intake and calorie utilization, it could be contributing to his weight loss. Even just stress or running around a lot can distract horses from eating if they have that type of personality, unlike an IR horse on pasture that will usually pack on the pounds.  Quality of the pasture could be another factor.  Can you put him back on 2 concentrated meals a day?

I also think 1/4 tablet is not going to have a significant effect if the cause of his weight loss is PPID.  I'm having trouble viewing his photos on my device but if I remember correctly, he definitely needs to gain weight (is BCS is not 7 out of 9 on the Henneke BCS, as your Case History says).  Anyways, I would want to trial him at 1mg.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Anette
 

He is dewormed regularly and his teeth were floated beginning of this year. He is back to getting two meals a day , by weight he is getting more than he was before but instead of oats with salt,and vitamins it's oats,beet shreds,Tim cubes,salt, and vitamins balanced to the hay and freechoice hay. You remember correctly, he is underweight . It looks as if increasing the pergolide is the next step. The CBC bloodwork did not show that anything else is amiss. Funny thing is,his coat stayed dark all summer whereas his pasturemate's fadded as usual.
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Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991