Advice on balancing diet please.


Rebecca.speed@...
 

Hello, 

I have started a new topic as requested. Please may I ask advice on Emme’s diet/rations and if I am balancing her hay correctly. Her hay profile is in my folder and I have just updated her case history with her current feed regimen. I asked for mineral balancing advice from Forage Plus as this is my hay supplier. Although very low sugar/starch hay, I have only started to notice improvements since soaking the day for two hours and then rinsing. Just hoping for some clarification that we are on the right path or if any changes need to be made. 


thank you all ever so much x
--
Rebecca , Surrey UK 2021
Case History Folder https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20&%20Emme%20from%20UK
Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271481


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Rebecca,

If you are seeing improvement with hay soaking, that's great!  Some horses really need that extra step to be taken.  The main item of concern in your diet that I can see are the Agrobs leichtgenuss (their analysis shows it to be close to 10% ESC+starch, but given their list of ingredients I suspect it can be higher; regardless, I would not feed this to an actively laminitic horse). 
https://www.agrobs.de/en/leichtgenuss-p3366/

Also, apple peel, rose hips and the fresh herbs etc might be in small quantities but can have high sugar levels for their weight.  Since Emme is responding to soaking of her already very low ESC+starch hay, you can see she needs very low sugar and starch in her diet right now.   I'm sure you've removed these from her diet, at least temporarily until she is able to be properly exercised again.

I have not looked at the analysis and balancing recommendations made by Forage Plus, but they do follow Dr Kellon's protocols so I don't believe there is any reason to be concerned.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Rebecca.speed@...
 

Thank you Kirsten, 

I was only adding the smallest handful of the Agrobs to add a little fibrous texture to her feeds but I’ll remove it completely and search for something much lower. 


Is soaking hay for 2 hours minimum satisfactory?
I am due to switch suppliers soon so need to get a new analysis. I’m hoping the contents of her current feeds give her the optimum levels of everything she needs to aid recovery. Am I missing anything?

We had started an Ertugliflozin trial but I wasn’t convinced her hay was as safe as it should be (prior to soaking) so we stopped. Based on her current condition of slight improvement and hopefully her diet, trim and environment being as good as they can be, would the next best step to be revisiting the Ertugliflozin and then follow up with blood tests?

Most definitely positive changes since soaking already very low % hay but not significant enough to make her 100% comfortable. 


Thank you for your time, advice and patience. 
--
Rebecca , Surrey UK 2021
Case History Folder https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20&%20Emme%20from%20UK
Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271481


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Rebecca,

If you restart the ertugliflozin you probably won't have to worry about her hay or soaking it. The loss of glucose in the urine from these drugs means the slight variations in hay based diets are not an issue. In fact, soaking may be detrimental.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Maxine McArthur
 

<Is soaking hay for 2 hours minimum satisfactory?


Rebecca, soaking in plenty of cold water for one hour is enough to remove some sugars without depleting other nutrients too much. Particularly given your current heat wave conditions, I wouldn’t soak for longer, as the water will get quite warm which could encourage microbial growth. In fact, during our very hot summer of 2029-20, I would leave a tub of water outside during the day and then I’d only have to soak the evening hay for 30 minutes as the water got so hot! 


--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I didn't see anything missing in your diet recommendations from Forage Plus.

If you are going to be getting new hay soon, I'd wait until you've done so then see what her metabolic bloodwork shows after a week or 2 on it.   If insulin is still too high, proceed with a second Ertugliflozin trial.  You should check kidney function and triglycerides prior to starting Ertugliflozin, and continue to monitor both of them as well as urinary glucose.  There are also feeding instructions that Dr Kellon can share with you upon request.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album