Attn Lavinia: Chicy (in foal) Trim Pictures 2022-01-19


Qhgirl
 

Hello and thank you for your time. Chic had her 3rd trim with the new barefoot trimmer (prior trims by farrier).  She foundered mid September 2021.  I can actually see her heels moving back. She has been trotting in boots when being hand walked and is now rarely in boots and has a stall with dry lot 24/7.  

Biggest concern is her LF foot as you can see in pictures there is an indented area in the front of the frog. No doubt from where the coffin bone pushes on the sole.? I have been watching that area. 

Chic has been on 2 mg Prascend for 3 weeks so planning to get new bloodwork in next few days to see if she is regulated. In 3 weeks will have vet out to take new ex rays. 

She is now 7 months in foal. Trimmer said some of his in foal mares in the past during last couple of months before foaling do not want to give their feet for a trim so am concerned about that. 

I want to back up toes in between his 5 week visits. If there is anything you can recommend for me to do in between his visits please guide me to make the most out of this time as she gets heavier with foal  I want her as comfortable as possible  it's been 4 months since foundering. Is our progress at a good rate or should I be doing something different?

Trimmer said her front feet soles had a lot of loose sole when he touched it with the hoof pick to clean her feet it just came out in chunks. He said that is a good sign she is trying to get rid of dead sole. Under it there was some bruising in a couple of areas which he said the chucks that came off were like small rocks so she should get some relief with them gone. She licked and chewed when he put her feet down. Fortunately, we have not had any abscesses. 

Would love some feed back on new pictures on if things are going good or if I can be doing more for healing her feet and have optimum comfort as she nears her foaling date at end on May  


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Janet - if by the indented area on the LF you mean the spot at 11 o'clock that is most likely an abscess spot.  She still has quite a bit of flare and excess toe and that area corresponds with that, not with where you would see an issue with her coffin bone.

Can't comment on what your trimmer is claiming as I've never seen that as an issue with any of the broodmares I worked with.  If you want to get a good rasp you can't go wrong with a Bellota Top Sharp.





Qhgirl
 

Hi Sherry,
I have a good rasp. If you look at earlier pics that spot was in front of the frog. Now it seems to be at 11 o'clock as you stated. Chicy did step on a Tpost stub that the prior owner of this farm must have cut off at ground level and it made a big hole in front of her frog  in her foot several years ago. My vet had me put a piece of cotton soaked in betadine in the hole and change out frequently to protect it while it healed. Could she have a scar there that is a weak spot?  Or, are you saying I need to treat it like an abscess that needs to drain. I have to think her foot is changing position since the spit has moved? Does not sound like you think we have made much progress. When I compare the initial pictures to the current ones I see a big difference. Although we are not where we need to be. To me it looks like her toe is short enough but the 10 and 2 areas could have a little more filed off. I asked my trimmer about that and he said he took a lot off yesterday and does not want to take more right now. He said in a couple of weeks I could file some more. I am looking for some guidance on where I can take more off. Not a mark up at this time. Just some guidance.  

I saw the discussion in this group about leaving a heel that is taller on one side alone rather than taking it down. Under what circumstances would one leave the taller heel taller?  I feel on her right from the apex of the frog does not point to noon. Would leaving a taller heel alone help move that frog to noon?  She has had that situation on last 2 trims and I mentioned to the trimmer the group discussion about not taking the taller (outside heel in our case) down as he said he was leveling it out. He said it was just a tad. And added this issue has been an on going discussion for years. So, I would like to understand the logic behind why we would leave one side taller versus make them the same. 

Thanks to all for your input. Most appreciative and grateful for your time and expertise. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Qhgirl
 

Sherry,
I take back about the t post injury being in front of the frog. It was on the side of the frog. This is all new to me. Sorry. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

HI Janet,

Trim is definitely progressing but toes still need to move back more on all four feet. This is more about where the breakover actually is at ground level rather than about the laminar wedge in the dorsal wall above that. The depression ahead of the tip of the frog on the LF looks like it may be where the frog tip had stretched to but has since receded. It may also be where some of the stretched toe material has dropped away as the toes are being brought back closer to where they need to be. Could also be the remains of an old abscess area. Whichever it is, no need to be concerned about it.

Yes, her heels are definitely looking better. The LF still has wall flaring that can be tightened up all around. RF is medially high (or laterally low) - the fix depends on which it is. If the chunks of sole just drop off with a hoof pick, then they are ready to come loose - just don't force them off. The body prioritizes adding sole depth where it is needed most, which doesn't necessarily happen in even layers. There can be areas that are thicker/taller/lumpier than adjacent areas and those need to be left in place. If removed, you are just extending the amount of time it will take to get better sole depth. The bruising you see in the sole is not from the sole chunks but is from damage that occurred earlier and is just now growing down to ground level where it is visible.

To get on top of the toes running out ahead of where they need to be, backing them up more frequently than 5 week intervals is a good idea as they tend to shoot out ahead much too quickly otherwise. Every 2-3 weeks would be a better target.

If there are in-foal mares that are reluctant to give their feet, I would be wondering if they are experiencing some degree of laminitis at that point, as that would be the time for it to rear its ugly head.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Qhgirl
 

Lavinia,
Thank you. Then I will back up only at ground level 10 to 2, right?  Another question. I requested my trimmer to bevel the walls on the sides/quarters. He instead has been putting arches in at the quarters. It would seem to me if we are trying to raise the heels we would not want to remove any sole at the quarters?  So is arching the quarters accomplishing the same thing as beveling the walls at the quarters?  Just trying to understand. my trimmer is highly thought of and stays busy. He is 2 hours from me so I sense when I bring up things like bevel the walls on the sides he feels like I am criticizing him and the last thing I want to do is get on his bad side as I am grateful and fortunate to have him. And, he has told me he fires clients who do things he does not agree with so is quite sensitive. Plus he is a big Pete Ramey fan and knows the guy who trained both Pete and himself. He has all Pete's books and has been to some of his clinics. I need to be very careful how I approach him  He is very enthusiastic about each horse he trims and thoughtful about every rasp and nip  He really cares  

Ever so grateful for your guidance!
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Qhgirl
 

Lavinia, on the RF he said the heel was a tad high on the lateral (outside) so he brought it down to the same as the medial (inside)?  Sounds like this made her out of balance?  My trimmer is a stickler for balance - talks about how important it is. Possibly the fact she is standing on a soft mat could make her look unbalanced in the picture?  I will try to take pictures of that RF on a flat surface. 

Cordially,
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Janet,

You can trim her at ground level with her hoof on the ground by running your rasp horizontally.  Stand her on a flat surface like concrete or a rubber mat, or sand, or put her hoof on a 2x6 block.  I often do this to shorten toes and round out the hoof on my horse, before lifting the hoof and putting on a bevel/breakover from below.  It's easier on both of us, and you can remove a lot of material this way, and use the weight of your horse holding the hoof down to push against (vs holding the hoof off the ground in one hand and pushing with the rasp in the other, which quickly gets exhausting unless you do this for a living).  So if she is hesitant to hold her hoof up, that's a good way to keep those toes back between trims.  A lot more can come off those toes so feel free to work on filing all 4 hooves weekly, but I agree the trim is looking better.

Arching the quarters is controversial.  Some say it can sore a horse, others say it's natural and ideal.  I personally do not carve an arch in.  Go with what Chicy tells you.  You will have to pick your battles with your trimmer and some things are not worth fussing too much over right away...unless Chicy is sore because of them, then don't back down. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album