can high dose of pergolide promote stud-like behavior?


Bonnie
 

Lad has gone to a new home, a small teaching stable. In the new place he is exposed to mares, and is trying to breed them
He was originally a breeding stallion, then gelded at 8 years when his owner retired. He lived alone here for many years. The only odd behavior was getting a full erection when rewarded with treats in training (only after many treats. Seemed to be "happy anticipation.") 
He is on 24 mg of compounded pergolide. Can that be affecting his dopamine levels enough to turn on this behavior?
I am deeply concerned as I thought I had found the perfect setting for his retirement.
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Bonnie. I did do some message searching on this topic for you....and Dr. Kellon mentions that the sex hormones are influenced by LSH and FH which are produced and excreted from the pituitary gland, but not from the same area as the PPID is.  It is possible that the replacement of dopamine is allowing the pituitary to release these hormones which is normal function. She stated it is a side effect noted in humans. Did he live alone at your place? If you go to the message search box here on the main forum and type in "Stud behavior"- you can see Dr. K's discussion thread. 
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Bonnie
 

For the most part, he was alone here. Someone brought in a gelding. For a couple of years Lad would push the larger gelding away from the hay nets. Finally the other boy kicked Lad in the chest. After that the food competition stopped. The other horse was later moved to his owner's new barn. I got Lad when he was 8, just gelded, and except for the 3 years when my friend's gelding was here, he was on his own. Lad is now 26.
Thanks for the search information, Trisha.
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Karen Anderson
 

Hi Bonnie: 

My 21 yr old PPID gelding was moved to a new barn this past June. Fhin was gelded at 4 and I've owned him since then. He never showed studdish behavior even with mares in the next stall until the move, when he suddenly was extremely studdish. Fhin is on 6 mg compounded pergolide. 

My vet said older geldings do sometimes change behavior like this when moved to a new barn. Who knew? 

Karen Anderson 

--
Karen and Fhinland in Maryland

Case Study:   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Fhinland


Bonnie
 

Thanks for your input: that's interesting that your vet has noticed such things before.

--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Nancy & Dot
 

My Welsh Cob/Arabian gelded pony was 20 when he moved to his current home.  He had been turned out near mares for the previous 9 years without issue but the new place was too much.  Here we have larger groups in turn out.  He even took down a metal post & rail fence (although it had to have been loose already).  We moved him farther from the mare pasture and he did eventually calm down, but gets crazy if a mare in heat is near him.  Rumor has it he was gelded late, maybe around 4 yrs.

Thank you,
Nancy

--
Nancy O, Colorado, 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Dot

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=280596


Maxine McArthur
 

Bonnie, I had a similar thing happen with my gelding when I moved him from living in a yard by himself at his former riding school home to a large group paddock with mixed mares and geldings. If a mare in season courted him, he would oblige and mount her. He did not chase other geldings nor did he approach mares not in season. We did a rig blood test which showed no unusual hormone levels. Once he formed his own little group of 2-3 mares plus himself within the larger herd (actually the mares chose him), he stopped the mounting except for his “main lady” who would just pester him until he obliged. This horse was gelded normally at an early age. 

On the other hand, my current gelding, who was a breeding stallion until he was 6, and ran with a herd unhandled until I rescued him at 13, is a complete “man’s man” and gets quite curt with Indy when she sidles up to him asking for some hanky-panky. 

So there is great variation among geldings including those who were gelded late. I suspect the sudden change from solitary life for Lad has reminded him what his “job” used to be. Do you know if he ran with a herd when he was a stallion? He may just not be very well socialised. You could do a blood test to be sure, but I wonder whether a better management plan would be to keep Lad with a gelding companion or two rather than with mares, at least for the time being until he realises what his new job actually is. 

I believe it can take up to a year for a horse to settle into a new home, especially if it is very different to the old one, eg from solitary to social. 


Hope this might give you some ideas.
PS I have found that often mares will come in season when a new gelding enters the herd. This would obviously not be helpful! 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Bonnie
 

This is getting interesting. I have now been informed of six instances of older geldings being moved to a new place and suddenly exhibiting stud-like behavior!  My daughter's gelding takes the cake though. He was a retired school horse. When moved to another farm he stole the farm owner's prize mare, forcing her to run with him, crossing a river and disappearing. (Access to the river was subsequently fenced.)
I wonder whether this is a common thing with geldings in their late teens or twenties. Is it worth investigating? Also it seems most of these geldings settled down eventually in the new home. 
Unfortunately although the place Lad is in would be a perfect setting, this behavior means he must be moved a second time. I can't risk leaving him in a place where horses or people could be hurt. 
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Maxine McArthur
 

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 09:38 AM, Bonnie wrote:
I wonder whether this is a common thing with geldings in their late teens or twenties.
Sorry to be flippant, Bonnie, but I had the image of middle-aged gents suddenly buying a Harley and zooming off into the sunset...
 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933