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Custom Feed?


lindsaykrauland@...
 

So, I think I have identified a couple feed mills for sourcing wheat bran for Audi’s new diet.  But that got me thinking— If I need to start shopping the mills, why not just source various ingredients from them and make my own custom PPID/IR safe “Senior Feed” for Audi?  I already mix my own minerals; same idea, right?  If it can be done economically, I’m all for it.  I’d LOVE the convenience of just scoop and go, and at present, my husband all but refuses to feed the horses because he thinks it’s absurd how much mixing and measuring have to go into each and every meal.  He also despises the need to RSR large quantities of beet pulp.  I don’t love it either.

The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a safe bagged feed is the price.  Currently, I’m feeding Audi for about $6.80/day, not including hay & balancer or Emcelle.  Could I do a custom mix that requires minimal/no RSR for in the ballpark of this price?

Dr. Kellon, is this a service you offer?  (I’d happily pay, obviously.)
--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


 

Lindsay, what do you imagine might go into the mix?  Most of the feeds on the approved feeds list contain soybean hull pellets, beet pulp and often alfalfa meal/pellets and hay pellets....  plus lots of supplements.  I’m fairly sure you could source soybean hull pellets.  I don’t have a nearby mill that I know of so I’m just curious.

Have you signed up for Dr. Kellon’s course on equine nutrition (NCR+)?  
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


lindsaykrauland@...
 

Hi Martha, 

Right, I'm basically hoping to replicate a safe bagged feed for a better price. So kind of all of the above on the ingredients, although I don't know how to mix them in the right proportions. And maybe beet pulp shreds instead of pellets to allow for less soaking? (Though not sure how I'd get around the need to rinse beet pulp?) Again, it's really just an idea I had. I know folks do custom mix their own livestock feeds, but I don't currently have the knowledge to do it.

I will totally take the NRC+ course one day! It's kind of part of the 5-year plan, though, for now! Raising children, homeschooling (which we've done since before the pandemic made it a "thing!"), managing the farm, running the household, and volunteering with a community group currently take up all my time and then some. This is a season of my life in which I'm content to leave the nutritional knowledge to the real experts. One day, though. :)
--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


lindsaykrauland@...
 

So, I love this article from Dr. Kellon (thanks!), but I'm going to have to play with numbers for sure, and I'm not sure I've fully wrapped my head around it.  Looks like I could use the Ca & P numbers, mix up pretty much anything with the right ratios, and basically consider that mix balanced to itself so that I would only need to use the minerals necessary to balance my hay + vit E & salt? Is it really that easy?  What about the ODTBC- would those get mixed in? https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2020/06/15/making-your-own-feed/

I can mess with a recipe for a beet pulp/wheat bran/flax mix since those ingredients are already at the forefront of my mind, and I know they're pretty safe. (Anyone willing to give me a hand with that?) Would that make a good (from a nutritional standpoint) mix? 

If I used beet pulp shreds, could I avoid soaking them? And how concerned would I really need to be about rinsing, since Audi seems to have ok insulin and no iron issues that we know of? Could I make the mix with BP shreds, simply wet it down a bit, and serve it right away?

--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


 

IMO beet pulp shreds would not work for a mineral mix. The minerals would just sift to the bottom of the mix. If you make a mineral mix (including vitamins that may be needed) then add it to your damp BP or dampened soyhull pellets that would be about the easiest you can get. I never went the beet pulp route, instead used the soyhull as a carrier. Then you have to make it palatable enough for your horse to eat it. The pellets worked for me and Stabul one pellets also worked. 
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


lindsaykrauland@...
 

Hi Bonnie, 

Sorry, I meant that I would make the feed mix & add hay balancer (which I already mix separately) right before serving. Still much easier than measuring and mixing each and every ingredient for every meal, as I'm doing now!

Did you choose soy hulls over beet pulp for any particular reason? I'm not at all familiar with the soy hulls. Do they need soaked like BP usually does? I find the soaking to be a bit of a pain, especially in the summer when I worry about it going bad before serving. And if I forget to think ahead and get home late at night without having to remembered to start the BP soaking- There's no way to hurry up and feed the horses. And like I said, my husband won't touch the stuff, so I don't get any help with the horses. If there's a good, economical alternative, I'm all ears.
--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


lindsaykrauland@...
 

Dr. Kellon, in the recent blog I posted above, you discuss the need for a proper Ca:P ratio in any homemade mixes but only address trace minerals for hay balancing.  However in an older blog, you mention that trace minerals become more of an issue with homemade mixes at feeding rates over 1 kg/day.

Ca:P is good for the feeds we had already discussed, which are 6 lb beet pulp, 3 lb wheat bran, 1 lb flax daily.  (1.3:1 overall Ca:P) Do I need to worry about trace mineral balancing?  Hay is already balanced, and he’ll also be getting a couple lbs of ODTBC daily, at least until his weight is in a better place.

I’m just resigned to the idea that I’ll have to RSR beet pulp pellets, which do seem to be the most readily available.  However, for those times that I can get unmolassed BP shreds, would it be enough to simply wet them down rather than the entire RSR routine? Could Audi handle that amount of unsoaked shreds?  And would iron in the shreds likely be a problem if they’re unrinsed?

--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


 

I fed Logo beet pulp for quite awhile and used both shreds and pellets.  They both needed lots of care because it’s not just any sugars remaining after processing you are trying to decrease but the iron as well.  It’s been awhile but it seemed as though the shreds needed more rinsing than the pellets but neither of them is ready to eat.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 01:45 PM, <lindsaykrauland@...> wrote:
Dr. Kellon, in the recent blog I posted above, you discuss the need for a proper Ca:P ratio in any homemade mixes but only address trace minerals for hay balancing.  However in an older blog, you mention that trace minerals become more of an issue with homemade mixes at feeding rates over 1 kg/day.
That's correct. If it's over 10% of the ration, you need to consider it in balancing as a rule of thumb.
Ca:P is good for the feeds we had already discussed, which are 6 lb beet pulp, 3 lb wheat bran, 1 lb flax daily.  (1.3:1 overall Ca:P) Do I need to worry about trace mineral balancing?  Hay is already balanced, and he’ll also be getting a couple lbs of ODTBC daily, at least until his weight is in a better place.
With the amounts you are feeding, yes you do.
I’m just resigned to the idea that I’ll have to RSR beet pulp pellets, which do seem to be the most readily available.  However, for those times that I can get unmolassed BP shreds, would it be enough to simply wet them down rather than the entire RSR routine? Could Audi handle that amount of unsoaked shreds?
The whole routine.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

With as much as you are going to be feeding on non-hay, it would be worthwhile to contact Aurelio at Ontario Dehy and get a price on a pallet of the ODTB cubes.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


lindsaykrauland@...
 

Thanks, Martha & Dr. Kellon!

I did email OD.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I’d never thought to try and order direct.
--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lindsay,

Regarding your question on soy hull pellets, they only need about 30-60 min to soak (although they soften within minutes), they are lower in sugar, and they do not need to be rinsed.  They can be fed dry too, although I think the point of soaking them is to make a mush that mineral supplements will stick to.  They are similar in price here to beet pulp, maybe a couple $ more per 50 lb bag.  I switched to them because I was finding bits of corn and rice bran in my beet pulp pellet bags, plus I wanted to eliminate the extra rinsing step.  If you were thinking of replacing beet pulp with them you would want to check that you keep the calories the same, and of course your major and trace element ratios could change.  A good place to start is the Dairy One feed library.  It has average (and min-max values) for beet pulp and soy hull pellets, under Dry Grain and Protein Feeds, respectively.
https://dairyone.com/services/forage-laboratory-services/feed-composition-library/interactive-feed-composition-libraries/
They both seem to be high in iron on average though.

If you are looking for someone to help you mineral balance your custom feed, we have a list of experienced balancers in our files (look for the file: "Hay Balancing") who will do it as per Dr. Kellon's NRC Plus course for a fee.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album