Topics

Devils Claw

 

I am looking for a source for Devils Claw or a good safe pain reliever. All of the DC I am finding has yucca in it. Right now I have Marquise on a low dose of Bute (I know I’m not supposed to, but I feel like I have to give him something until I can find something better.) Currently he is very uncomfortable and having trouble standing for trims.

I should add it’s not laminitis, it’s arthritis, ringbone and DSLD. My sweet boy is breaking my heart.
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

 

Try herbalcom.com for straight-up devils claw.  One Tablespoon AM and PM.
--
Jean and Amber (over the bridge)

Buster and Nikki

South Carolina

August 2004

NRCPlus 0412; CIR 0813, 1211; NAT 0612

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gloria%20and%20Amber

celestinefarm
 

Amber, Emerald Valley in NH has a liquid Devil's Claw available.
https://emeraldvalleyequine.com/product/btb-plus/

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .

 

Thank you both. How do I handle the dosage if I only feed once a day? Also, is this the best pain relief you know of?

Thanks so much!

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:35 AM, celestinefarm wrote:
Amber, Emerald Valley in NH has a liquid Devil's Claw available.
https://emeraldvalleyequine.com/product/btb-plus/

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


 Thank you both. How do I handle the dosage if I only feed once?
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

celestinefarm
 

Amber, I don't know the answer to your question. You could call Emerald Valley and ask, my guess is they are going to suggest you stay at the dosage level of a loading dose permanently, but I doubt they will advise you to double the dose. 

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .

celestinefarm
 

Meant to answer the second part of your question regarding best pain relief. It depends on how much pain your horse is in.  You say he is having trouble standing for trimming, etc.  Is that the only time he is overtly uncomfortable? You don't want to keep him on bute as you know. Other NSAIDS that are RX have long term issues also.   If so, and he were mine, I would administer bute or banamine the day of trimming, then I would look for a long term anti inflammatory. Devils Claw, or consider a much slower acting , but safe for IR horses anti inflammatory such as MyBestHorse's Move Ease.  Something else I find works for leg or joint soreness is Sore No More gel lotion applied to the sore area.
As you noted, most of the joint supplements out there have yucca, or Glucosamine in them and are too risky.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Amber,

Do you have Marquis on the DSLD protocol of jiaogulan and AAKG?

Uckele has a Devil's Claw without yucca, as well as the one with the yucca. Hyaluronic acid is another safe option. Here's a post from Dr. Kellon for a couple of other options:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/246424?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,uckele+devil%27s+claw,20,2,0,71009886

Agree with Dawn on using bute just for the trims: dose the night before and the morning of a trim for a boost in pain relief during that time.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Frances C.
 

My  arthritic/DSLD/PPID mare has been on devil's claw  extract powder for over a year at 1100 mg active ingredient twice a day. I read somewhere that it reaches its peak effectivness in 2-3 hours. On 3.21.2020 I ran out of it and did not get more until 4.2.2020 - about 10 days later. When she was off DC she was noticibly more lame but when it was reintroduced there was no improvement. I kept her on DC and added added 57 mg of previcox for 13 days and saw an immediate improvement. When I discontinued the previcox the DC seemed to re-established itself as a fairly effective pain reducer. However at the same time the weather got quite a bit warmer. I hope this info. is useful to somebody. I am keeping my fingers crossed but just in case I ordered Ukelele daily hemp pellets as a back-up. As to move-ease, I hesitate as ingredients are not listed and phyto quench has ingredients that she just will not consume, mainly tumeric and boswellia. She is also on HA and Jherb. I have also tried bute to see if it was useful when trimming was scheduled but it made no apparent difference in the mare's ability to lift her hind leg. Once it is up she stands quietly on three legs until the trim is over and then we have to grasp the leg and push the hoof back down to the ground.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382

 

I haven't tried the J-herb AAKG protocol yet. I would like to but I haven't quite figured how or if I could manage the dosage twice a day. Also have to consider funds and what will give Marquise the best bang for my buck. I would love some insight into this predicament if any of you have thoughts on that? Will that protocol slow the progression of the DSLD or actually provide some pain relief for him.

Just ordered the Hemp and J-herb from Uckele because I know I can handle those dosages, its the keeping AAKG from water that has me a bit puzzled since all of Marquise's food is soaked. Would it be worth it to add some DC in with that for additional pain relief or would money be better spent on the AAKG and figuring out how to dose it?

There was a question about if he is only uncomfortable for trims. I can tell in his eyes he is maintaining a fairly constant state of discomfort, but since he only meanders around the pasture it is noticeable the most during trims and by his lack of spunk and playfulness.
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Why do need to keep AAKG from water when feeding? You can mix it into water to syringe it in.

You want to store it in a tightly sealed container as it is hygroscopic - absorbs moisture readily - but that isn't an issue at feeding time.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

 

I read on the DSLD group that it couldn’t be administered with water and can’t be baked into treats either. I syringe my pergolide, I can possibly put it in with that. 
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Amber,

You should take your DSLD questions over to that group to get more direct feedback from users, including the once a day question. The hemp product  also has a full dose of DC.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

 

Thank you Dr Kellon
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

AAKG can be mixed with water if you give it right away. It may dissociate if mixed into a wet meal that takes a while to eat.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

 

From the time I mix until he eats is about 20 minutes. Is that adequate? Would it be okay if I mix it with my pergolide, j-herb and Cocosoya to syringe it?
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

That's too long to let it sit in the food.Syringing it in with oil is  fine.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

 

Adding to this thread about pain relief for Marquise. A month ago I started him on the Hemp joint Support from Uckele. The results have been absolutely amazing and brought tears to my trimmers eye today as it was the first time Marquise has been able to "hold his own" for a trim in a very long time. His eyes are bright and he is carrying himself as he once did. He even yawned and chewed for the whole trim, much different from 5 weeks ago when he could barely stand. Thank you for the suggestion! I would add a heart emoji if I could :)

I hope this helps someone else!
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447