Diva laminitis, help and hoof evaluation


Anna Kulginova
 

Hi everyone!

My pony Diva has an ongoing case of laminitis and I am hoping I can get some help and hopefully some hoof evaluation in this group.
I have filled out the case history file and uploaded photos of her hooves from just when she went barefoot up to now, the links are in my signature.

Diva has had her hooves radiographed recently and I will upload the X-rays as soon as the vet sends them to me.
Tomorrow we will be seeing a laminitis specialist farrier/trimmer and I will upload images from after that trim as soon as I take them as well.
We have suspected EMS on Diva for quite a while and both the farrier and vet think that this is what she has. 
Here in Sweden we only take tests as soon as the horse is well from the laminitis so we have planned to take PPID and EMS testing in September.

When she got the laminitis we had not changed anything prior, she was only getting a balancer for IR quotas with no added sugar, iron or starch. She was on a track/turnout with dirt, gravel and a tiny amount of grass, also eating a small amount of hay. Turnout 24/7.
She became more and more footy from 2021-06-09, I got boots on her and she got a bit better but then she got really sore despite boots and got worse so the vet was out 2021-06-15 and she was put on stall rest and NSAID since then. 
It has been almost a month now and we have not been able to come completely off NSAID yet :(. I was weaning her and everything was going well but she somehow got hurt in her stall during the night of 2021-07-07. Her RF cannon had a small scrape, the cannon was swollen and after that she got quite a lot worse in all four legs again. I had to up the NSAID and she is now finally starting to feel a bit better again.

She is still sore though and is still on stall rest.
After eating the emergency diet she is now eating 1,5% of her ideal body weight in extremely low sugar haylage in a hay net and I have balanced her minerals with quotas for an IR horse. All her feed is in the case history.
I started with alcohol tinctures of Schisandra, boswellia, devils claw and echinacea but after she got worse again I have not dared to use the tinctures again.
The radiographs showed that if she has any rotation it is only minimal/1-3 degrees and that there is some visible white line separation in one front hoof.
Her white line separation has really gotten a ton better since we first went barefoot though.

Now I am wondering if there is anything more I could do for my pony or if I am doing something wrong.
She has been in pain for a month now and I am worried that she is not getting much better.
Also, I would appreciate some hoof evaluation (I have uploaded photos from just barefoot up to now, see signature), she has come a long way from going barefoot but I know we are a long way away from good hooves. Is there anything we can do with her feet to relive the pain? She is in Equine Fusion recovery boots 24/7 now.
Right now she is very careful with her feet, no founder stance, can't do turns as you can see she is hurting and uncomfortable. Can walk straight on a flat surface pretty confidently.

History:
Has gone barefoot since 2021-02-26 and since then has a been footy now and then on gravel and has had to sometimes use boots.
Trimmer was out 2021-06-02 and took off some toe, we have been working toward a better hoof shape from the start (see link in signature).
Became footy and went to sore 2021-06-09 to 2021-06-15 and was worst when vet came to see her 2021-06-15.
Vet came out to radiograph and check her 2021-06-28, she was on max NSAID dose and almost completely pain free.
Was getting better and weaning off of NSAID until 2021-07-07 when she hurt herself in her stall.
2021-07-12 specialist laminitis trimmer coming out, still on small dose of NSAID.

--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Cindy Q
 
Edited

Hello Anna

Welcome to the group! 

Thank you for getting your case history up and hoof photos and xrays. Below you will find our full welcome letter, it has a lot of details I know but please take some time to go through each section (Diagnosis, Diet, Trim + Exercise when the horse is comfortable).

I am unsure why in Sweden testing is only done in when the pony is well/ September but this should not be due to scientific basis - is it something practical there due to access to the vet's timing? In the meantime, best to treat and manage as IR I agree.

Your haylage test does not seem to show ESC (simple sugar) and starch, only WSC (ESC plus fructans). The % WSC seems to be low 3.2% but starch also plays a factor as it is converted more efficiently to glucose. Your haylage seems to be low in copper and your current ratio based on 6kg is about 15:1:6:11 (Iron Copper Zinc Mn). It should be 4:1:3:3.

You also appear to be feeding 3 Hippolyt products (balancers and supplements). I don't think any of them fit within our recommendations and they seem to add more iron and mn and not enough copper:
- Hippolyt Muesli has 8% fat and contains lucerne (alfafa) and rice bran (inflammatory due to omega 6 ratio to omega 3) https://www.equusvitalis.com/st-hippolyt/equigard-muesli
- Hippolyt GKM with ingredients of herbs, yeast and flaxseed (http://forhasten.se/produkt/mineraler-gkm-gemuse-krauter-mineralien/ there is a link there to the Swedish datasheet)
Many of these ingredients are "red flags" if you have IR concerns and I think you do: Calcium carbonate (marine and mineral), dicalcium phosphate mineral, seaweed flour, salt, carrots, barley flakes, corn sprouts, apple puree, magnesium fumarate, mixture of cold pressed oils (flaxseed / sunflower seed oil) 3.8%, 
herbs (peppermint, coriander) 3%, finely ground oilseeds (flaxseeds, sunflower seeds, fennel seeds, nigella seeds) 2.8%, brewer's yeast, apple syrup, beets, pea protein, oatmeal, honey

[I'm setting out some of the details I got translated for the other ECIR volunteers who will likely have more advice)
In any event, you already feed 1 tablespoon flax oil. You can probably drop this to 1/2 tablespoon based on your pony being 280kg aiming for ideal weight of 255kg and you scored with body condition 6/7. You do not need to add further linseed using the above products (which also mix in other oil with reverse omega 3 to 6 ratio like sunflower seeds)

- The 3rd hipolyt glucogard also has same issues as above and has overlap ingredients also: Brewer‘s yeast 40%, herbs (milk thistle, blueberry foliar, shepherd‘s purse, buckwheat herb, marjoram, fenugreek, anise, fennel) 28%, linseed and sunflower oil cold pressed 6%, malt-yeast-mixture, ginger, carnitine, cinnamon, salt, garlic, magnesium acetate, magnesium fumarate, calcium carbonate (maritime and mineral), artichoke, sea algae flour, honey

I'm unsure about your haylage as you do not have the full test. One possibility and other volunteers or Dr Kellon may chime in here, is you may wish to dilute your haylage by feeding some rinse soaked rinse unmolassed beet pulp. I had a look around and in Sweden you may have Saracen Rapid Beet or Speedibeet (British Horse Feeds) or Pavo Speedibeet or any other unmolassed beet pulp products that are local to you? The branded ones I named are faster soaking. The reason to rinse thoroughly is a lot of these beet products have surface iron due to processing method and that can rinse off leaving a clean, low sugar and starch feed that is also high in fiber.

MSM and glucosamine can cause problems for IR horses. I personally would stop all these for now and go back to the full emergency diet.

On boots - equine fusion recovery is quite a new boot. Equine Fusions generally have very flexible sole. No harm to play around with adding some pad to see if it makes a difference for your pony. Sometimes too much flexibility may not be comfortable for a compromised horse. Also, you may already be doing this but give them 1 or 2 hours to dry out daily as getting moist or damp inside can make your hooves soft and also cause them frogs and hooves to exfoliate more quickly.

If she is walking quite well in straight lines, I would let her walk some daily under supervision to keep her circulation etc. I would avoid turns/minimise.

Ok, without further ado, below is the full official welcome letter:

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on 
Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response





Anna Kulginova
 

Thank you for your reply!
I feel a bit better after finding this group because I do see that here is Sweden the info on laminitis and founder can be a bit outdated.
I have been reading up and it is great to get some help :).
 
The first testing here is advised to start in the autumn, the horse needs to be healthy from laminitis and the test for IR is taken on a fasting horse to measure "before and after" glucose and insulin levels.
Glukos > 10-16 mmol/L is a risk as well as Insulin > 65 mU/L = is indication of IR.
I guess it could have something to do with how the labs here handle the tests or that the Swedish University of Agricultural science's official recommendation is that testing should be done this way.
I think the recommendations are based on research from around 2009-2011 but the university has released some brand new recommendations only last year and they are still basically the same.
I am not sure how I would go about asking my vet about tweaking this since the whole system is built around these procedures/recommendations.
 
Here we also do go by WSC for sugar as the one to check, I was not aware that ESC + fructan was the important indicator.
I will send the haylage to another lab and see if I can get more info on starch and ESC.
Thank you for checking out the feed too! I guess maybe I was only looking at starch and sugar and the branding (st hippolyt does brand their feed very compellingly :( ), I will look into her diet once again. 
 
I forgot to mention that my pony has issues with bone spavin and subluxation of the patellas and that is why she is getting glukosamine, MSM and flax oil. She was doing fantastic, especially shoeless up until now. Her issues have of course gotten worse now that she is on stall rest because she was kept in check with exercise. I do know that some studies have shown that you need very large quantities of MSM and glucosamine to help with any issue a horse has, but of course I only give her the recommended amount.
I guess it is better I continue with the emergency diet a while longer, just as you wrote.
 
I did feed Speedibeet until this winter but stopped because of the high iron (adding on to our haylage) and the practicalities of having to soak the feed.
 
The boots really help her pain together with the NSAID, I have Cavallo gel pads inside but that maybe just makes everything even more soft and flexible? I will try with ought the pads as well as maybe some other types of pads as soon as I can order them. I am letting her rest from the boots when I am with her every day and I am really pleased with the new recovery boots. Her other boots have chafed and got hot and damp (active jogging equine fusion) but these are light and airy and don't chafe at all. She has started to flake a bit on the sole but I have tried a few nights to rest from boots but that seemed to get her pain level up despite standing in really deep and soft bedding.
 
I thought the Exercise part of the introduction letter was very interesting, I have had a hard time to wean her off of the NSAID as they do help her pain almost immediately. I guess it would help a whole bunch for Diva if I knew if she really is IR or not. I also can not let (due to our animal welfare laws) or see her just bear the pain; what could one do for my pony other that instead give Boswelia or devils claw, which I am not really comfortable doing?
 
Thank you again! 
I hope I can also get some insight on her hooves later :).
--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Anna Kulginova
 

I also just uploaded her new Xrays to the photos section to help with any hoof evaluation.
--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Anna,

In order to remove a NSAID you need to taper down slowly or you will see a rebound effect where the pony will appear to be in more pain.  The plan for tapering is here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/How%20to%20Taper%20Off%20NSAIDs.pdf

You can replace the NSAID with Devil's Claw if you can source it.  Information on how to do that is here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Pain%20control,%20switching%20from%20Bute%20to%20Phyto-Quench.pdf.  If you do that there's no need to do a taper down - you can switch from the NSAID to the Devil's Claw.




Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Anna,

No one wants to see an animal suffer, but the fastest way to relieve pain is the diet.  I've seen a slight effect within 24-36 hours, and a noticeable improvement within 3-4 days in my own horse several times.  Once every possible laminitis (or "high insulin") trigger is removed from diet and Diva is on the emergency diet, you should see a noticeable reduction in pain.  Some discomfort will remain until she has had a chance to grow in better connected hoof walls.  That's a good thing because if she doesn't feel any pain then she might be inclined to run around on her damaged hooves and worsen the situation.  That is one of MANY reasons to minimize NSAIDS.  A little bit of movement is good though so allowing some turnout in padded boots in a small area where she can walk around and other horses can't chase her is fine.

If you've made all the dietary changes and are still seeing excessive pain, then it comes down to getting the feet comfortable with padded boots and trim adjustments.  I prefer to use 12mm EVA foam pads.  I have the Cavello pads, too, and in my opinion they are not thick enough for laminitis.  I use Easycare Comfort pads: 12mm green (soft) or black (medium).
https://www.easycareinc.com/comfort_pads/Comfort-Pads-New.asp
A pony would probably do best with the green/soft pad, but some equines prefer a firmer pad so it's nice to try both and see what is the most comfortable.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Anna Kulginova
 

I am looking at the group files for the diet right now.
I will try to eliminate as many insulin triggers as I can but the haylage testing with WSC and no starch is sadly the types we have available here in Sweden :(.
Perhaps I will have to send some haylage to the states for testing.
In the mean time I have minimized back to the emergency diet.

The laminitis trimmer was out today and clipped her toes a bit and cleaned up the frog (he did not rasp because it could cause pain to the laminae) we checked how she was walking and it turned out that there was no difference with or with ought boots, pads etc so we will skip the boots for now. Maybe I will wrap her fronts later on. She has access to a tiny gravel and rubber mat turnout now.
I have the green comfort pads but I really have not been able to fit them into any boots, they are so thick! Are they only (or even!?) compatible with the Coluds?

--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Anna,

Do you mean she is just as uncomfortable with boots as without boots ?

I wonder if the trim needs to be finer tuned? Do you have pictures of today's trim, for hoof people to take a look?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Anna,

Thanks for adding the photos from today. It looks like the trimmer did what was needed, based on the radiographs - shortened the toes. They still need to be shortened some more to get them into the proper location. The rest of the hoof capsules appear to be in pretty good shape and didn't need any trimming.

The latest rads show that the sinking has increased since the 2018 ones were done. Sole depth is about the same in both sets - borderline adequate, so could use a bit more sole depth. Bony column alignment is good, so no rotation. Rasping will not cause laminar damage, so it should be done if needed. Generally, it doesn't cause the horse any pain to have excess hoof material removed, even when they are laminitic. In fact, once the trim is optimal, they generally feel much better - if all the underlying causes have also been addressed.

I relabeled the radiographs, as the views are laterals, not medials. Many of the older photos also have the lateral views of the hooves labeled as medial. When you have a chance, it would be helpful if you could change those as well.

You can use the green comfort pads in the Cloud boots - they may actually be too thin, as the pads that are specifically designed for the Clouds are even thicker, although not as dense, so they squish and conform to the contours of the bottom of the foot more precisely.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Anna Kulginova
 

Hi again!
 
Thank you for all your input.
 
Yes, she looked as uncomfortable with as with ought her boots.
After what you guys wrote I decided to give the green easy care pads another go and put them in her Recovery boots. 
To my surprise the boots fit despite the thick pad (the recoverys are much more forgiving than the boots I tired this with the last time) and I saw an immediate big change in how much comfort my pony had! Yay! :D
 
I am tapering down the NSAIDs again, she is on only 50 kg of Metacam right now. I now understand that the medicine is not beneficial to her getting better so I will try my very best to remove it and not start it up unless she really worsens a lot again.
Despite the low dose she was doing really well yesterday with the pads.
 
I have relabeled all the photos to lateral, thank you.
I am sorry if it was unclear but the photos you saw Lavinia were from before the trimmer was out, I have uploaded the new photos today.
He basically only clipped off some more toe on the fronts and cleaned up her frogs.
 
I am unsure about if rasping her causes pain or not, the trimmer chose not to rasp (with ought me mentioning anything) and when I shaved her toes and flares last Tuesday she did get more sore after that.
 
The trimmer did also mention that she does not seem to be the usual laminitis horse. He sees 20-30 laminitis and foundered horses a week throughout all of Sweden and was a bit stumped at how sore Diva is and how her walk looks and also that she has not gotten better than she is in a month.
She has been eating the emergency diet around 3 out of 4 weeks since I stopped the diet in my case history again as soon as I saw the replies here (I just wish I had checked the feed here before I bought everything!).
I have added a new body shot in the photos, she is starting to get quite hungry now compared to when we started the diet when she first got sick.
Maybe I could add a video of how she looks like when walking and standing, is the best way to do this to add a google photos link in a post?
--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Anna,

Diet first: based on the weights you have listed - as well as the picture - Diva is currently quite a bit overweight and needs to lose about 25kg (or more).  To achieve that weight loss we recommend feeding either 1.5% of current weight or 2% of ideal weight, whichever is greater.  That daily ration includes all hay and any concentrates as well.  For Diva the higher number is 5.1kg per day TOTAL.  So her hay needs to be cut back from the current 6kg and then whatever you use as a carrier for her minerals needs to be taken into account as well.

As far as videos, you can share a link here.  If you use Google just make sure the video is set so it can be seen by anybody with the link without a password being required.



Anna Kulginova
 

I am aware that my pony has excess weight and am trying to adress this.
She is eating 1,5 % of her body weight in dry matter (her haylage is 66% persent dry matter) and has been losing weight quite steadily since she started her stall rest (now stall rest with a tiny square of dry lot turnout).
I was under the impression that it is not good for a horse to be fed less than 1.5 % of their weight in dry matter?

I am now waiting for the laminitis trimmer to come out again in 2 weeks time, she has been off of Metacam a while now.
I have sadly not had anyone that could help me film her while walking out at the barn, she is still walking quite strangely.
Diva has been improving quite steadily and has been wearing her boots almost 24/7 the last 1,5 months.
Her soles and frogs have now been peeling and flaking quite badly and her feet, despite airing them every day, regular washings and cleanings of the boots etc have been quite chafy because of the hot and humid weather.
This week I decided to trim down her bars and clean up her soles a bit and then cast her with flexible hoof wraps to still give her hooves some support so she could have a rest from her chafy boots.
I thought that this would help her but she responded with being able to walk a bit quicker and instead coming up lame on LF after standing on any hard surface.
I will try and update her case file to todays status shortly.

--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Maxine McArthur
 

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 04:47 AM, Anna Kulginova wrote:
cast her with flexible hoof wraps to still give her hooves some support so she could have a rest from her chafy boots.
I thought that this would help her but she responded with being able to walk a bit quicker and instead coming up lame on LF after standing on any hard surface.
Hi Anna
I’m sure Lavinia will have help to offer on the trim, just wanted to say quickly that if she came up lame after casting, it might be worth checking that you haven’t inadvertently left a lump of casting material anywhere (speaking from sad experience here). 
 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Anna Kulginova
 

Oh no!
How did you notice this and how could I check for this?
I was really careful when casting but this could just as well have happened when I placed her foot on the curing pad; the material could have bunched up instead of smoothing out like it's supposed to :o.
--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Anna
It sounds like you did all the right things. So did you do a full sole coverage cast or just a rim cast? And when you say flexible material, is it the casting that you need do moisten then it goes hard, or something else? 
I had another thought-- did you use DIM or other padding on the heel area so the cast didn't pinch or rub the heels? That can also cause soreness. 
Hoping one of our proper trimmers can comment here as well. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Jackie W
 

I am not a trimmer, but my horses have had casts put on a few times years ago. Most of the experiences were good and made the horse more comfortable except one time. The foot was very dry when it was applied and then we had rain, and the horse walked like a person wearing shoes that were too small until we could get the cast off.  I don’t know for sure what the issue was, but it seemed to me that the foot tried to expand with the extra moisture, and the cast would not allow expansion. This may not relate to your situation, but I just thought I would share the story. 

--
Jackie and Megan
Palm Bay, FL
Joined March 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Megan
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264114


Anna Kulginova
 

I did a rim cast with cast material that you moisten and then it hardens, this is not the type of cast you can rasp though and it isn't rock hard but flexes a bit and lets the foot expand.
I did not use DIM or padding under the heel, that would probably have been a good idea in hind thought but it was complex enough to put the cast on for me as it was :).
She has improved since I wrote the last post and is OK walking straight and up- and downhill now. I found out that she gets lame and hobbles when the ground is on a sideways slant and that is still true but it was very much more pronounced before.

--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Anna Kulginova
 

Thank you, these casts are supposed to be able to handle that the hoof expands so I really hope that this is not the case for her.
She has improved a bit since I wrote the post.
--
/Anna
Sweden, 2021

Diva Case History
Diva Photo Album


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Anna,

I'm glad that Diva is doing a bit better now. I would think the uneven ground is bothering her because of the way her weight is pushing on her hooves but hopefully as she gets better you will see less of that.