El Santos #file-notice


karenday1961@...
 

Hi
I have just completed my case history including blood work.  We are on day 57 of the laminitis episode and he is doing much better but I am not sure what I need to do now.  He is walking much better but still ouchy when he steps on stones.

1.  Should I start hand walking him?  There is no where on my property that is not grass or very large stone gravel.  Grass will be an issue since he hasn't had any for such a long time.  

2.  When do you recommend another blood test to see where his insulin and glucose are?  

3.  I have hay test results - is there somewhere I upload those results?  

4.  The vet who originally diagnosed him is no longer available.  I do have another on stand by.  

Thank you for your help!

--
Karen D. VA 2022
June 2022, Brookneal, Virginia
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20El%20Santos
E
l Santos Photo Album:


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Karen,

Are you booting your horse? If he's less than 2 months from an acute event it is much too soon to start handwalking him, particularly if he's ouchy walking on his own.  Since his insulin is 191 he should NOT be out on grass unless he's in a completely sealed muzzle that he cannot eat through.

You can redo bloodwork now that he's lost 100lbs to see where his insulin is at with just a diet change but he probably has about another 100lbs to go to be at an ideal weight for his height.  Posting body shots can help us help you assess this.  

Hay test results go in your case history folder if they are PDFs, if they are JPGs you will need to create a photo album title "Karen and El Santos" and post the picture in there.  Is this the old hay or new hay that you had tested?  





karenday1961@...
 

I do boot him on and off.  Should I boot all the time.  The boots are a little big so I didn't want to put too much pressure on the toe area.  

I posted the hay analysis in the case history folder.  Thanks!

I will try to take some photos of him soon.


--
Karen D. VA 2022
June 2022, Brookneal, Virginia
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20El%20Santos
El Santos Photo Album:


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Karen,

If he's not comfortable in his current turnout area I would keep boots on him, but only if they fit correctly.  If you can post a current batch of hoof pictures we can advise on trim for you and then you can look for a used pair of boots that will fit him.  

As far as the hay analysis, I'll let people with more knowledge on that comment but the test was done via wet chem, correct?




Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Karen,

Can you change the date for your bloodwork results in your Case History to April 12 2922, which is the actual day the blood was drawn?

Your hay overall looks good to feed.  It is a wet chemistry test and combined ESC and starch are <10% at 8.4%, which is safe for most EMS horses.  Iron is low, and the major element ratios are pretty good.  If you're planning to transition him to the new hay soon, then you could wait to do bloodwork.  After 1-2 weeks on the new hay I would get his insulin and glucose rechecked.  However, fescue hay can cause laminitis if the endophyte toxin is present so we usually recommend avoiding fescue.  I believe even strains that are supposedly resistant may case hoof pain if fed in high quantities, but hopefully Dr Kellon will correct me if I'm wrong.
https://aaep.org/issue/fescue-horses-diet-minimizing-risk-your-horses-health

I would keep El Santos off grass permanently as after one acute laminitic episode the risk is too high that it will happen again.
  
If you want to have a recommendation for minerals that will balance your hay, since we don't know if KIS is appropriate or not,  you can contact one if the balancers on this list: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


karenday1961@...
 

Hi Kristen,
Yes, I will change the date.  Thank you for that input.  
I have asked Nancy Collins if she would do the hay balancing for me.
Should I test the hay for the endophyte toxin?

Thank you for your response
--
Karen D. VA 2022
June 2022, Brookneal, Virginia
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20El%20Santos
El Santos Photo Album:


Nancy C
 

Hi Karen

I would definitely test for endophyte, but if possible, I'd be looking for another hay. Not what you want to hear, I know.

Dr Kellon has posted studies showing why Fescue is not a good idea (below). 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22585825
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29293720

However, it appears that the type of fescue is important as fine fescue is okay, however tall fescue is not.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/251717

Can you check with your grower or with the VA Cooperative Extension office, specifically the forage experts, as to confirm what you have? Here's the link to Virginia Tech Coop Extension: https://ext.vt.edu/offices.html

The rest of your test results look to be fairly easy to deal with. Majors pretty good; traces need copper and zinc. If you are concerned about iron in your water, you can test for sure, but also use an RV water filter.

https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022