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Feeding Turmeric to IR & PPID horses


Tori & Floss
 


There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out here in regards to feeding Turmeric to IR and PPID horses?
I have read Dr Kellon's links to scientific studies done back in 2010 and 2011 which indicates feeding it increases Insulin Secretion. Is this still the case?
Is it safe to feed Turmeric to an IR or PPID horse. Help!?
Tori

 

December, 2016

Adelaide Australia

Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tori%20and%20Floss 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3347

 

 

 


Maxine McArthur
 

Tori, why are you wanting to feed turmeric? 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


 

Maxine, tumeric is a great anti inflammatory along with other good properties! Just do not use if a mare is taking progesterone.  The tumeric will interfere with the uptake of the progesterone.   May cause founder.
--
Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
Medford, OR
Joined 2018


Tori & Floss
 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 01:49 AM, Maxine McArthur wrote:
Tori, why are you wanting to feed turmeric? 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


 
--
Tori

 

December, 2016

Adelaide Australia

Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tori%20and%20Floss 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3347

 

 

 


Tori & Floss
 

It's just a discussion I've been having with some friends. Either being able to feed it to aid arthritis type symptoms then somebody said it can regulate Insulin levels?
I'd be interested to know if it is safe or not advisable to feed? Thank you.
--
Tori

 

December, 2016

Adelaide Australia

Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tori%20and%20Floss 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3347

 

 

 


Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Tori
So as an anti-inflammatory for arthritis pain? 
There isn't a whole lot in our files on turmeric (or its active ingredient, curcumin). It's not recommended to feed in conjunction with jiaogulan or Mov-ease. It is mentioned as an anti-inflammatory along with Devils Claw and boswellia, in the document on herbal alternatives to NSAIDs. 

I did a search of the messages (if you do the same, make sure you use two 'r's--ask me how I know, lol). 
Dr Kellon has commented on curcumin here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/182544
See also this message thread from last year: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/29200021#231167  
It is mentioned that turmeric may increase insulin here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/230832
and here (links to studies): https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/225315

My take on this is that if you have a non-IR horse with arthritis, you might try turmeric as an anti-inflammatory, making sure you use enough to be effective (see the first two message threads). I did try turmeric many years ago with an older horse who had bad hock arthritis. It made no difference to his comfort, but he did quite like the taste. I did not like the yellow stains on my buckets and benchtops and fingernails.
However, given that there is a possibility of interference with insulin secretion, I'd steer clear of it for a PPID or IR horse. 

As always, I defer to Dr Kellon and more experienced moderators if I've got this wrong, or if there are any new studies out there. 


--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You got it right, Maxine.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Frances C.
 

So at a very basic level I am completely confused. Everything I read online regarding glucose/insulin seems to refer to humans. Are horses that much different?. Here's is what I don't understand: If any substance such as tumeric/curcumin  has the ability to (A) increase the secretion of insulin or (B) increase the receptor cells ability to absorb glucose then what is the harm?  Does this not lower the amount of circulating glucose? Does slowing the transit of food through the gut help in reducing excess glucose or have the opposite effect?
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20PhoenixDoes
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Maxine McArthur
 

Frances, with my IR horses, I am always concerned about the link between increased insulin levels and laminitis. There are so many elements in their environment that I can’t control, I try not to add anything to their diets that might conceivably tip them into laminitis. Pre-emptive damage control, I guess you’d call it.
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Francine,

The biggest difference in horses and humans is that with humans we are dealing with Diabetes (high glucose levels) while in horses we are dealing with insulin resistance (high insulin levels). Horses are not as prone to actually becoming diabetic as humans are, although we seem to be seeing more of that complication now than we used to. Lowering the levels of circulating glucose is NOT the general goal in laminitic horses.

High insulin levels are what does the damage to the lamina in horses, so anything that has the potential to raise insulin levels - esp. in a horse whose levels are already higher than optimal - should be avoided.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR