Flame’s labs


 

I drew Flame’s labs last week & sent them to Cornell. I gave 3mg Pergolide & 225mg of Invokana @ 4am & drew labs @ 8am on 7/19. Flame ate and had hay in front of him from the time the meds were given until the time of the lab draw. Insulin is 88.05 uIU/ml & triglycerides are 447 mg/dL. I’m happy with his insulin (it was >200 prior to starting Invokana). I wish his triglycerides were better. I was hoping they had come down enough to do some light lunging, trail riding, etc.

He is getting 4 pounds of tested, unsoaked hay twice a day (the nitrates are too high), 3.5 pounds of TC Timothy balance cubes twice a day (it was 4 pounds but he recently had not been finishing his RSR BP, so I decreased it) & 4 pounds of RSR BP w/ all his salt & supplements. 

Physically he is sound, perky & has good energy.  He has mild anhydrosis & is kept in a stall w/ the front & back doors opened but stall guarded off (for air flow)  so that he can be under a mist system, have a  swamp cooler & fan during the day. At night the back door is unblocked & he can go into the run attached to his stall. He’s doing much better this year with the heat but is still breathing heavy/fast on our really hot days (110+). He’s getting body clipped once a month to keep his coat short. 

This morning my barn owner declared that he looks too skinny, that I don’t notice because I see him every day & that I need to increase his feed, specifically his hay.  I added body pics to our photo file- please look & let me know what you think. She is aware that I seek help from this group but she thinks I need to “treat the horse instead of the numbers”. As a nurse, I really believe a lot in the numbers. Please advise & thanks in advance! 
--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  




Sherry Morse
 

Hi Beth,

Can you label the photos so they're named with the current date first instead of gobblygook?  I know photos aren't always 100% reliable and I feel like we've had this discussion before but I think Flame looks better now than he did in May when he looked a bit ribby.  Could he use muscle tone, yes; but does that mean he's 'too skinny' - not to me.  In fact, looking at his picture from 2013 to me he looks like he's maintaining weight fairly well. 

I perhaps can relate better than others because I go through this all the time with Scutch who is most definitely IR by testing but doesn't look it and everybody else thinks he's skinny and needs weight. After 20 years of living with him I know he's not going to actually put weight on in a way that's going to be good for him.  I actually just took this picture of him last night (https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/78891/3465123?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0) - he's been out of work for 3 weeks with a tendon issue and he's still taping at 910 (which should be 890 if previous scale vs. tape weights are holding) and is right where he should be. He's just not built to be fatter than that and I don't think Flame is either.




celestinefarm
 

Elizabeth,
Flame looks just a little thin, which in his case as a NSH, is good. When were his teeth checked last? He's 20 and might not be able to chew as well as in the past. Dr Kellon has recommended wet forage is easier to eat, and I found that is true for these older horses. My horses get either soaked cubes or soft chopped hay twice a day in bowls in addition to the rest of their forage. I'm using Equal Balance chopped low starch hay, and although they advertise it as 10% and under ESC and Starch, it is not guaranteed any further than the guaranteed analysis. (Unlike the ODTBC, which are guaranteed, and batch tested).  So, if you need an extra tight diet for Flame, it might not be advised.
You might be able to find equivalent chopped hay by growers in the west if you cannot get additional ODTBC into him. As my horses have aged, they get pickier and picker about their food. I wish they would eat ODTBC, but they will only eat it for about two days, then they overturn their bowls. So alternatives have to fill in.
I just had both my mare's teeth professionally examined and floated, and both had just mild points to be removed, no loose or missing teeth. But the extra wet cubes, etc. seems to be the trick to keeping weight normal, and them not looking so ribby, which is what I'm guessing your barn owner is concerned about.Green Meadows Forage | EQUINE BALANCE

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Use this format:  YYYY-MM-DD

That way we can sort them chronologically.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Highbred Horse Hay has a nice, low ADF/NDF, chopped, compressed hay they call Gentle Blend.  It is pre-tested every year (by NIR) and is baled onto 2000 lb pallets and plastic wrapped for shipping.  The 2021 bales I bought I re-tested by wet chemistry and got 9.6% ESC+starch, which was about 1% high than their NIR test.  The results are in my CH folder.  Might be worth looking in to a shipping quote if you can't find anything closer.  They are in Alberta near the US border.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


 

Sherry- I labeled all of Flame's pics with the date they were taken. I agree- his weight looks better than it did in May. He had a very mild laminitic flare up in Feb or March & becasue of that & his high insulin & triglycerides, he hasn't been doing anything but dry lot turn out since then. So he has lost a bit of muscle & topline. I'm hoping Dr. Kellon sees his most recent results & allows him to do some light lunging or trail riding. 

Kristen- Pics are relabeled w/ the date & I will check out Gentle Blend.

Dawn- he had his teeth floated last year & is due during fall of this year. I will check out Equal Balance & the Green Meadows Forage. 

Thanks!
--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  




Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Flame is probably a 4.5 BCS which is light but not dangerously so. If you want to add some more weight, consider Stabul 1. He should also be on free choice hay. BTW, we need to treat both the horse AND the numbers!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


 

I forgot to mention that he is on about 1.5 cups of Stabul 1 per day. I can increase it. It’s such a balancing act to make sure he gets all his BP & supplements in. If I give him free choice hay he will not eat his BP as he definitely prefers the hay & TC Timothy cubes. Also, if you remember, my hay is too high in nitrates, which is why I’m doing 1/2 hay & 1/2 cubes each feeding & why I’m feeding 4 pounds BP.

Is there anything else I can do to help bring his triglycerides down? What effect does the high level have on his body?

 
--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana