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FREE FECAL WATER SYNDROME - also WAS: Dr. K Blog On Hay Belly - Could Relevante Have This?


DawnC
 

Hi Dr. Kellon, 
Is there a link to the Blog On Hay Belly? My IR broodmare looks pregnant year round and gets wormed, teeth etc. regularly. After her 2nd foal I asked my repro vet about the look of her belly and he said "she is a broodmare" end of conversation. Her hay has always been weighed - it is mature hay which is a little stemy and also tolerates morning pasture with a muzzle, Triple Crown Timothy Balancer cubes with Triple Crown Lite, Vit E, mag ox from Uckele, kelp with iodine, flax & salt. This year she lost a lot of weight after foaling. She usually loses some but I have NEVER been able to see her ribs like I do now and her hip bones & spine are very noticeable. I can always tell when she has eaten something or is off in her diet as she immediately gets fat pads or her eye sockets fill. I have added beet pulp to her diet, doubled her flax, let her eat unlimited hay and have pasture without the muzzle and she did not gain any weight. She still has a "pregnant" look belly. The foal just turned 5 months old and while I usually weight to 6 to wean, I may do her sooner. I have not posted in a long time or even had her tested for anything as things have been going smoothly with her current diet. She is 19. I also just saw your article on Free Fecal Water on the UCKELE sight. I think this is something she has!!!! She is a grey horse and our daily routine is to wash her backside, in between and all the way down her legs. She has a huge scar by her vulva which happened when she was young so I always thought she just stood funny when she went causing her to soil herself. What should I be doing? Should I try Psyllium? Her foal also has loose stools but I had been thinking it was because she has been eating a lot of leaves or anything that blows in the pasture. My other vet is coming next week should I have any testing done?

Thank you!
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

These are the two blogs

https://wp.me/p2WBdh-Z8

https://wp.me/p2WBdh-Xt

 If you use a probiotic, try Uckele Absorb All.  They also sell psyllium.  5% discount with code ECIR for all ECIR members.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


DawnC
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon! I order both the Uckele Absorb All and psyllium. Can they be given at the same time? Also should I have my vet do any new tests next week. My old case file is in the Yahoo group ECIR History 5 and I cannot access it.

Thank you again,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


coffincomplex@...
 

Dawn, regarding your mare's poor topline, in a quick look at your diet it looks like it may not contain enough protein for a broodmare, especially when she is lactating (although her foal is getting older now). Is this her diet full time?
--
Alanna
May 2018
Los Angeles, CA
Buster's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alanna%20and%20Buster  .


llkeach50
 

I wanted to chime in and mention that UCKELE Absorb All really helped my chronic diarrhea horse firm up within days. It is the only thing that has ever helped, especially during the change over from first cut to second cut.

Linda K.
NY since 2003


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Dawn,

Yes, you can give them together. Not sure what to tell you about tests.  What did you have in mind?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


DawnC
 

Hi Alana,
She has mostly been on ProElite Grass Advantage and her weight dropped when she was still on it. I have had her for 17 years and have never seen her ribs or her hips & topline look like this. Maybe I should add it back in.

Thanks,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


DawnC
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon,
I just didn't know if here is something else I should be looking for. We are two days in to the start of the Uckele Absorb All and psyllium.

Thank you,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


celestinefarm
 

I have a friend who is a Morgan breeder who just went through a full month of major issues with her herd , including foals, develop diarrhea and mild colic symptoms.8 total.  She had her vet out who did fecals for not just worms, but salmonella, etc. Negative. She sent her hay in to be tested, all parameters were normal with it, ESC and Starch below 10%. She and vet notified Cargill's representative, that the feed she was using possibly was contaminated. She was feeding Pro Elite Grass Balancer mixed into bags of Nutrena Safe Choice. Cargill's rep offered to replace bags and said they would test the feed, but would not release results of testing to her.  She ended up keeping her own samples of the feed and sending it off to Equi Analytical for nutrient/ingredient testing and the full panel of mycotoxin testing. 
Once the horses were off the feed, all slowly resumed having normal manure , appetites , and comfort levels.  The Equi Analytical tests showed that although the mycotoxins were not present, there was an elevated level of yeast in the sample. It was something like 10 times the amount stated on the bag.  Cargill felt it was no big deal( i'm paraphrasing) and then called her and said they noticed the bags were 120 days out from production and they were going to instruct feed stores not to sell feed that far from manufacture. ( She's not buying their story, but there isn't much else she can do. She's moved on to another feed manufacturer) . A week later, another vet in her vets practice called her to confirm her test results, etc. because he had been called out to a farm where multiple horses had developed diarrhea and they were also feeding Pro Elite Balancer. Purchased from the same feed store. 

The feed store has told my friend they have pulled all Pro Elite and are reluctant to sell any new deliveries because there were additional cases they heard about directly from owners.

Now I read here about a mare developing diarrhea and weight loss while on Pro Elite Balancer.  Dawn, if I were you, I would not put this mare back on Pro Elite. There is some kind of issue with it. My friends' vets believe their is either an issue with the yeast additive in the feed or in Cargill's processes which are resulting in some kind of fermentation of product which is causing hypermotility in the gut. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Dawn,

There's a lot more she can do, starting with notifying the state veterinarian's office and agriculture department and giving them the story. Regulation of feeds is done on a state level.

I'd bet a lawyer would have a few more suggestions too.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


DawnC
 

WOW Dawn, thank you for the heads up about Pro Elite!!! That is really disturbing to hear. I had my regular vet out yesterday(not repro) and she could not believe the way my mare looked. She said she went from a the picture of an  IR horse (cresty, fat pads, etc) to a completely unrecognizable as being the same horse! She drew some blood and we will wait to see what is going on. My vet said to wean the foal, continue with the Absorb All and psyllium but also suggested that after results from blood to rethink my feeding program. She really could not believe the amount of weight she lost & said my mare looked similar to a person who has reversed their type 2 diabetes but not in a good way. 

Thank you,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


DawnC
 

Just to note, even though my mare has lost weight she still looks as if she is going to foal in a month.

Thank you,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


Tamara Gonsor
 

This is a very informative post, as most here. I am just want to say again, THANK YOU! 
My horse has changed so much since coming to this group. 

--
Tamara G. in Arizona 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tamara%20and%20Malik
Malik Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252564