Fw: A New Approach for Cushing's in the Horse


Nancy Gillilan
 
Edited

 
I just thought that I would pass this on to you as some additional information.
 
My then 20 year old Tennessee Walker foundered about 2.5 years ago and was diagnosed with insulin resistance. The vet immediately used your formula for an emergency approach. Unfortunately he had to be stall rested for 3 months (he was used to being free to come and go in the barn) and had to be put on a tranquilizer during this time. I weighed hay in hay bags, got hay analyzed, supplemented his feed, and changed him to alfalfa (1 pound twice a day). Watched foot trimming, etc. Over a 9 month period he had lost weight, insulin level was 28, and he was sound with a muzzle and limited grazing. He wasn't a happy camper. A year ago last April his buddy of 12 years had to be put down. He not only went into a mourning stage, but it also moved him to the top of the herd. The barn that I had been at for 12 years is not designed to do long term individualized care. It seemed like over night he had gained weight, cresty neck, feet were sore, and insulin level was 71. On June 1 I moved him to another barn where he now was turned out when weather permitted and we went back to weighing hay, etc. He was on 7 supplements. I then consulted with Dr. Schell and did a full consult with him that included phone conversations, pictures of feet, horse and stool, and history. After receiving a 12 page report back, I feel like I got an approach that addressed the whole horse. He stayed on the alfalfa, came off of all synthetic supplements which can be inflammatory and can affect the gut, and supplemented with herbs. I changed farriers. Over the past year, Ace has lost 140 pounds, he no longer has tendon or sore feet issues, and his insulin level has stayed 27-29. He goes out with the rest of the horses without a muzzle (the pasture at the new barn isn't nearly as "rich" as the one prior) which decreases his stress and he is a totally new horse. I am so appreciative of the information that I got from this group in the beginning and the course that I took. I am also appreciative of the second approach. I have been a nurse for 47 years and I see how we have accepted traditional Western medicine and closed our eyes to Eastern or Traditional Chinese Medicine. It would be awesome if we could learn from each other and combine the best of both approaches. 
 
As a side note, Dr. Schell was diagnosed with bladder cancer at the age of 35; traditional Western medicine didn't cure it so he began researching and came across Traditional Chinese Medicine which he used and is cured of cancer (he is in his 50's). He then began introducing it into his own veterinary practice and has done considerable research.
 
This worked for my horse. I don't in any way suggest that it would work for every horse as they are all different. Just wanted to share my experience. There is so much to learn! And whatever we can do to help our beloved horses is welcomed. 
 
Blessings to all of you and all that you do!
 
Nancy and Ace

Message edited to remove advertisements that are a violation of ECIR terms of use.


 

Nancy,
Advertisements are forbidden by ECIR terms of use. I deleted the material that was forwarded to you because it looked like a marketing email to me.

ECIR is dedicated to providing up-to-date science-backed information about EMS and PPID. If you have any to offer, Dr Kellon and other qualified members can evaluate it. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Jean Hurrle
 

I found your comment about the inflammatory action of synthetic supplements to be very interesting. It kinda makes sense, as the sythetics are isomers of the real deal (see below for explanation) , and the body may very well identify them as "invaders".
I would I'd like to add a note about synthetics: I learned the following from an intensive care nurse who was giving a workshop on using essential oils. She was from Ohio where they certify some complementary medicine modalities. Certain essential oils are used in intensive care, such as lavender for burn victims. Here's what she said about synthetic preparations: while chemically and legally synthetic and "natural" (directly derived from plants), in terms of function they are not the same. We humans generally cannot synthesize molecules the same as plants make them; our synthetic are isomers, that is, same chemical formula but a different shape/arrangement of the molecule such that the body does not *recognize* (my word, as remembered from her workshop a number of years ago) them.
Isomer definition:
  • 1.
    Chemistry
    each of two or more compounds with the same formula but a different arrangement of atoms in the molecule and different properties.
  • 2.
    Physics
    each of two or more atomic nuclei that have the same atomic number and the same mass number but different energy states.
  • Result: they do not work as does the plant derived. Specifically she gave examples; synthetic lavender oil is an isomer and will not function as antimicrobial, pain reducing, etc. Cells do not recognize synthetic vitamin E, so it does not work ... natural vitamin E extracted without heat or chemicals does work and she said it will help with reduction of scar tissue. She said at the time (decades ago) there were only 5 companies in the U.S. that the hospital would order from. These were the only ones that produced the natural therapeutic quality essential oils. Resources are better now, but many essential oils and vitamins are synthetic.
    There may well be exceptions, but in general, synthetic may well be ineffective at best and possibly detrimental.
    Many thanks to all for the invaluable information. I've just joined after lurking for several months. I'm trying to give my 13 year old "in your pocket" formerly athletic arabian mare ("Shorty") with IR and possibly early Cushings a chance at a good quality of life.
    Jean Hurrle (Licensed massage therapist for over 30 years)



    --
    Jean Hurrle
    Illinois; 2022
    https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jean%20&%20Shorty%20aka%20VG%20YSA%20Tstar


    Nancy C
     
    Edited

    Hi Jean

    Hopefully Dr Kellon will weigh in but just to get things rolling, even though lots of marketing is out there, there is no evidence that synthetic supplements are inflammatory in the equine. There is for example, lots of research on the efficacy of synthetic vitamin E for the horse in the NRC Nutrient Requirements of the Horse.

    --
    Nancy C in NH
    ECIR Moderator 2003
    ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



    Starshine Ranch
     

    Hi Nancy,
    I find your post really interesting and would like to learn more.  How can one reach Dr. Schell ?
    --
    Linda in Grass Valley, CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
    https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


    Kirsten Rasmussen
     

    Hi Nancy G,

    I'm happy to hear Ace is doing well, that's what we want for all our horses.  BUT, without a Case History it is impossible for us to evaluate your horse's improvement using Dr Schell's advice.  There are a lot of variables that can result in improvement of EMS and/or PPID, not least of which is time of year.  At ECIR we only recommend what we know works for all horses, based on the published research.  While this research is heavily focused on western medicine, I'd advise anyone tempted to follow advice from someone who profits financially from it (either through consulting fees or supplement sales) to do so with the utmost caution.  There are plenty of examples of expensive supplements out there that we know do not actually work.  If you do have a positive experience, please document it carefully in your Case History so it can be evaluated.

    --
    Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
    Kitimat, BC, Canada
    ECIR Group Moderator
     
    Shaku's Case History
    Shaku's Photo Album


    celestinefarm
     

    Dr. Schell's website and supplement company is not new. I remember reading his site at least half a dozen years ago when another "member" popped up on the list to extol their "experience" with his protocol. Everyone should read Kirsten's excellent advice and remember it when discovering a website online or being referred by others to one. 

    I just looked at a recent post of Dr. Schell's at his site. It's very long and drawn out, but a sentence stood out in his disdain for the use of Pergolide or Prascend. He claims he has only used pergolide once in his entire career of treating horses, yet is sure of it's terrible side effects and lack of efficiency. This kind of lack of experience and extreme prejudice in the face of known research and treatment experience worldwide is one of the red flags everyone should keep in mind when evaluating a product or protocol. His site has zero references to research links. The site is loaded with lots of red flags. His laminitis clinic charges for everything but lab work. Claims that is free. 
    --
    Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

    Saline, MI  2003

    Tipperary Case History

    Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


     

    I’d add another red flag: exhorbitant cost for an unproven product. A 30 day supply costs $130. 
    --
    Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
    ECIR Group Moderator
    Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
    Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


    Nancy C
     

    Just a reminder on the science: with PPID we are talking about DEAD NEURONS. Chinese herbs have no evidence of function in the capacity that pergolide or carbergoline do to replace these non-functioning, dead cells. 
    --
    Nancy C in NH
    ECIR Moderator 2003
    ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



    Eleanor Kellon, VMD
     
    Edited

    To add to Nancy's post, it's not a matter of "Western" vs "Eastern" or "Alternative". It's published fact vs unsubstantiated claims. We have 20+ years experience with thousands of horses and the database of case histories is open to anyone who joins. We don't make stuff up. We combine the published literature with our own experience to produce guidelines that should work for the vast majority of horses at risk of laminitis. That has always been our primary focus and it starts with DIAGNOSIS. Before buying into any "other" approach, read this https://wp.me/p2WBdh-kd .
    --
    Eleanor in PA

    www.drkellon.com 
    EC Owner 2001
    The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


    Eleanor Kellon, VMD
     

    Nancy,

    We are happy that Ace is doing better but if I am understanding you correctly this is a new barn, new diet/hay, new pasture and only since June 1. Give it a year.... We also would love to see a case history because without it this testimonial is useless.
    --
    Eleanor in PA

    www.drkellon.com 
    EC Owner 2001
    The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


    Eleanor Kellon, VMD
     
    Edited

    Jean,

    I'm sorry, but this is total nonsense.  There are synthetic compounds that are isomers (long story short, mirror image) of natural ones but that doesn't mean that all synthesized compounds are isomers. They are not. There are also methods to synthesize vitamins, amino acids, etc. that are identical to the naturally occurring forms.

    Even if you do feed synthetic forms that are not naturally occurring, there is no evidence whatsoever that they are "inflammatory".
    --
    Eleanor in PA

    www.drkellon.com 
    EC Owner 2001
    The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


    Frances C
     

    Not defending Dr. Schell at nouvelleresearch.com or BioStarus.com.  but do seek out nuggets. Sometimes find something that may help such as Triphala  for gut or Shilajit (fulvic acid) for energy or Astaxanthin for antioxidant. I purchase these in human capsule form to see if any do any good. Did see that triphala did have an effect on manure. It is certainly a lot less expensive than purchasing and paying shipping for a host of ingredients that I already know my horse will refuse to eat. I think that this is a common problem with equine products in that they contain things that are bad for our IR equines or contain stuff like curcumin, devil's claw boswellia that may have an effect if you can manage to get them inside a horse. Besides that I question how, when the active ingredient is in pellet form - that is added alfalfa etc. to make it palatable, the active ingredient is not degraded by the pelleting process.
    --
    - Frances C.
    December 2017, Washington & California
    Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
    Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


    Eleanor Kellon, VMD
     

    Triphala is primarily used as a laxative. It has also been documented to have effects on the human microbiome that may not necessarily be good for the horse - or for every horse. Fulvic acid is nonsense. Astaxanthin is the latest trendy antioxidant with no proof it is better than a balanced diet with supplemental E and flax. Please do not post things like this without supporting scientific literature, especially in PPID/EMS equines.

    Eleanor in PA

    www.drkellon.com 
    EC Owner 2001
    The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."