Date
1 - 13 of 13
Hay analysis help
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Jennifer Murphy
I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the analysis I received for some tested hay. The 400 bales I have currently is so coarse and unpalatable my mules are leaving most of it uneaten and Flea has been experiencing FFW. I had a few bales of previous hay left over and have been feeding that out with the gross hay, and his symptoms have abated, thankfully. So now I'm trying to offload the gross hay and bring in some decent hay for the winter, and I found a service that provides tested hay. I confirmed the testing was done by NIR and with the results, I want to pass on it. The s/s is pretty high now, so I'm thinking wet chem would most likely drive the numbers higher. Then I noticed it's all DM numbers, not as fed. Would that make a difference? I'm not familiar with this company, so I may be reading the result wrong, too.
Hopefully this is a link to my hay analysis folder, it's the BSF NIR test just uploaded. https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea/Hay%20Analysis -- Jennifer in NH 2020 CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Trisha DePietro
Hi Jennifer. We recommend using the AS FED percentages....not the DM. I guess you could call and see if they have an AS FED result on that particular test, but I think you are absolutely correct that the Wet chem is going to test higher in ESC and starch and you are already really close to 10%. So good call on not taking this one.
-- Trisha DePietro Aug 2018 NH Dolly and Hope's Case Histories Dolly's Photos Hope's Photos Primary Responder
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Hi Jennifer
You can sorta figure out the AS FED by using the Moisture/Dry Matter numbers. Generally a nicely dried sample still has 10% moisture. You DM/Moisture numbers fall in that category. See just under sample information. Your ESC would be 90% of the Dry Matter number. I calculate 6.75 %. Then add 30% to compensate for possible NIR/wet chem differences and you come up to 8.75%. Do the same for Starch and I believe you are just over 10%. When you are looking at digestibility you need to look at ADF and NDF. Dr Gustafson recommends they be under 40 and 60 respectively, if possible. The higher those numbers are the more fibrous (stemmy) and less digestible the hay will be. More here: https://equi-analytical.com/resources/glossary-of-nutrient-terms/ I must admit I don't know Cumberland's form as well as I should. It looks like ADF may be above 40. You might want to take a visual tour of this hay and compare to what you have now, if you can. It may be okay. I'd want to see it or at least converse with the grower/supplier. Hope this helps. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2021-2022
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Sherry Morse
There's a way to convert to the as fed basis but I think the short answer on this hay is that if those are the NIR numbers you're close to 10% already so you'd want to see actual wet chem/as fed results to even consider this one.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Sherry Morse
Thanks for clarifying the calculations Nancy! I forgot to mention that if you scan the QR code at the bottom of the form (I didn't on this one because it's blurry on the scan) you can usually see a photo of the hay sample. It's been a while since I've done that so I forget what else they have on the back end but it's kind of a neat thing to check.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Jennifer Murphy
Thanks all! I think I'm going to pass on this load. After struggling for years and finally getting my little guy straightened out, I don't want to take any chances.
Nancy - thanks for that information; I always get confused with the adf/ndf part of the equation! -- Jennifer in NH 2020 CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Jennifer Murphy
I have a question for you hay gurus.
In my search for replacement hay, I thought I found a perfect fit. While waiting for the analysis I began slowly mixing the new hay in with the current hay, until I was satisfied both mules were tolerating it well. For the past 3 days they have been getting just the new hay. I received the analysis today, and I'm puzzled as to why they will hoover up this new hay but the old hay lies in uneaten piles in my paddock. When I look at the analysis for each load side by side, they look remarkably similar. The new hay is actually lower in protein and higher in ESC+starch, but not by much. Why would they prefer one over the other when the profiles are so similar? I see the iron is higher in the new hay - is that a worry? The old hay is in my folder as 2022 07 CC Farm, the new hay is 2022 09 VT White Farm. If anyone can tell me why it's more palatable to the boys, or if I shouldn't feed the new hay, I'm all ears. (not unlike my mules) -- Jennifer in NH 2020 CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Sherry Morse
How does the NDF and ADF compare? That's usually the most common test answer.
-- Thanks, PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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I don't see any real difference that might explain why one is more appealing than the other. I read about a study once where 6 or 7 different hays were fed to see which ones the horses preferred. The humans ranked them first by what they thought would be most appealing. You'd think the softest leafiest greenest sweetest smelling hays would have been the horses' first choice, but it was not necessarily the case! Sometimes it's just not obvious what determines palatability...
The higher iron and calcium in the new hay can be corrected by the mineral balancing, you'll just have to feed a bit more minerals (approx twice as much, which is going to cost you a bit more but probably worth it if they don't waste as much hay). -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Jennifer, I had to laugh when I read your message, as last night my paddock buddies and I were scratching our heads as all our horses were scoffing a new load of teff we got, leaving the old teff on the ground (as conscientious owners we mixed them carefully so as to not have too big a change too soon ... haha). The old teff was a lovely clean hay, fairly fine, greenish, balanced major minerals and palatable NDF/ADF. The new teff is brown, much coarser, obviously more mature but not a lot of seed heads, similar mineral profile, higher ADF/NDF. Similar protein levels in both hays, the more mature hay a bit lower (13% vs 11%). Starch and ESC slightly higher in older hay. But new hay is way yummier. Not a strand was left in the morning, whereas with the old teff I was crawling around to gather up the waste and put it back in the nets. Go figure.
Our theory is that after a wet summer and a wet autumn and now into a wet spring, that they are sick of anything with moisture and want dry brown stuff, lol. -- Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles
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Jennifer Murphy
It's a mystery, I guess! The way they gobble up the new hay I really expected much higher ESC, starch, or protein at the least. So long as I'm not missing anything glaring in the analysis, I'm happy. I'll have it balanced to address the higher iron and calcium - thank you all!
-- Jennifer in NH 2020 CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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There are olfactory cues to making them eat as well as taste. If the hay smells fresh and new, they'll eat it.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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This is an interesting study on food preferences https://e-space.mmu.ac.uk/617340/1/Applan-D-15-105R2-b.pdf
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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