Hay Analysis Request


Baron
 

Hello, I have 3 lots of hay tested. Looking for feedback. Can I get away without soaking hay now?
Thank you

Stacey and Baron



--
Stacey & Baron
Terrace BC 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Baron )
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=278023 )


Bobbie Day
 

Stacey I don’t know about everyone else but I can’t open your PDF labeled three samples.
Im assuming that’s where you put them?

--

Bobbie and Maggie 
Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21) 
Utah, Nov 2018
ECIR Group Primary Response 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Maggie
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271156

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


 

Hi Stacey,
This hay test was done using NIR methodology which, in our experience, has not been found as accurate for measuring ESC and starch as using wet chemistry.  The reports have been found to be as much as 30% off.  As the ESC plus starch is already close to 9%, I would suggest repeating the sugars and carbs portion of the test using traditional wet chemistry.  You might call the place which did the recent test to see if they still have the hay sample.  Continuing to soak until you can better assess its risk makes the most sense to me.

Bobbie, I didn’t take the time to sort this out but it seems like there may be several links on the same line and I was lucky to get the right one.  At least I hope I did.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


 

Oops!  I just realized that I was looking at the wrong file, too!  I see the E-A reports now and I’m going back to take a look.  Sorry!!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


 

Stacey, you can add the ESC and the starch value of each together and hope that it’s less than 10%, which is the cutoff we find appropriate for soaking or not.  Your first two hays are very close to ten which should make them safe, unless you have an especially sensitive horse.  The third hay has a lower ESC plus starch but it also has very high protein which isn’t always a good thing.

I notice that the first hay is a grass alfalfa mix.  We advise people to avoid feeding alfalfa to IR horses as some of them can exhibit hoof pain.

If these are hays you are assessing for purchase, hopefully someone else will jump in with any concerns.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Stacey,

I would describe Baron as "very sensitive" now that you have bloodwork posted.  A 3 year old with an insulin of 88 uIU/mL is very unusual.  Normally problems don't occur until maturity after age 5.  I understand he had an injury(?) and was on stall rest(?), so no exercise as well as being quite overweight so maybe that combination was enough to push him into laminitis at such a young age...we just don't see young horses with metabolic laminitis very often.

I would definitely soak all those hays for Baron.  You'll know more when you get your fall test results and can see how high his insulin is when that hay is not soaked (assuming you aren't soaking it...if you are, it would be interesting to see how far the soaked hay lowers his insulin).  Obviously the Terrace 2nd crop is the lowest in ESC+starch, which would be the best option to feed--especially in the coldest months--but the mineral profile is not as nice for balancing as the Terrace 1st crop, and there's the higher protein as Martha said.  I'd probably feed the Terrace 1st crop and soak it, or mix both Terrace hays 50:50 and soak.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


 

Hi, Stacey.
If Baron were mine, with a history of founder and obesity, I would look for a hay with ESC+Starch no higher than 7 - 7.5%. None of these hays analyzed on Sept 14 meets that profile, so I'd pass on buying any of them.

The first issue about all three hays is the high moisture content: 18 to almost 20%, almost double optimal moisture content of 9-10%. These hays are at risk for mold and spoilage. 

The second issue is that the ESC in all three hays is higher than they look because of the high moisture content. IOW As Fed results for these hays are deceptively low. All three hays are close to or above the 10% maximum level of ESC + starch and NOT suitable for a fragile equine like Baron without soaking. We can make a conversion to estimate what these hay really look like by adjusting the moisture levels as if they were 10%.

The alfalfa mix hay has the equivalent of 9.72% ESC (using 10.8% as DM x .9) and 1.44% Starch, for a total of 11.16%
The Terrace first crop has the equivalent of 8.91 % ESC (using 9.9% as DM x .9) and 1.08% Starch for a total of 9.99%.
The Terrace second crop has the equivalent of 8.1% ESC (using 9% as DM x .9) and 0.81% Starch for a total of 8.91%. Crude Protein is in the range where nitrates could be higher than is safe, and would have to be checked with a follow-up call to Equi-Analytical to ask the lab to check just that sample of nitrates. But as I said above, I'd pass on all these hays and keep looking. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
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