Topics

Hay confusion


DBellusci@...
 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone😊. I hate to bother anyone with hay nonsense again but after finding hay that was working out really well, now I can’t travel over state lines to pick it up because of lockdowns. I inquired from a new source (was looking to get second cut but would take whatever was safe) and got this response: 

“Well I will tell you this, all 2nd cutting is very high in sugar. This is because all 2nd cutting is cut before the hay fully matures, which is why it is short and green. When hay isn’t full matured, it is extremely high in sugar, starch, vitamins and minerals. Hence why 2nd cutting is often recommended for hard keepers. I recommend that you get 1st cutting 😊 please give me your email and I will send over”

They emailed me both analyses and both look ok to me but now I’m worried that I’m looking at something wrong. I would so appreciate it if someone could take a quick glance....I put both as photos in my case history but don’t know how to make a direct link to it. If no one can see it maybe you could tell me how to post it.

I don’t want to risk messing up the progress we’ve made. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
--
Donna and Caz

 

Nov 8, 2016

Chesterfield, NJ

Caz Case History.pdf 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Donna,

Which cut it is doesn't tell you anything regarding vit/mineral content and ESC+starch. It's the fertilizing,growing conditions and timing of the cutting that have the major impact on how the hay turns out. Need to test to actually know what you have. I have tested 2nd cut hay for 15+ years now and only once has the ESC+starch been an issue as it came in at about 12%, which is higher than acceptable for an IR horse but certainly not "very high" in sugar.

I only see one full analysis - for the 2nd cut hay - in your album. The other analysis is only the moisture content and iron. The iron content in that sample is very high, so I'd pass on it anyway.

The full analysis was done by NIR testing, which isn't as accurate as wet chem but the ESC+starch is 5.7% - which is really nice. Even if the actual is higher, it is still likely to be within safe levels. Iron and manganese are high so it would need significant amounts of copper+zinc to balance. Shaking/rinsing (not soaking) the hay would likely lower that amount but you would then need to retest a rinsed  sample to see what the actual result is plus commit to shaking/rinsing all of it before feeding.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


celestinefarm
 

Donna, When you say you can't travel over state lines because of lockdowns, can you explain what that means? Are you being asked to quarantine when you return?  I'm asking because it doesn't make any sense. Travel is not banned across any state I am aware of.  Unless there is some kind of major penalty, I would be getting my hay that worked out well.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


DBellusci@...
 

Yes going in to PA  I’d have to quarantine 2 weeks in PA unless I had a neg test result in hand, and so would my husband, which we cannot do right now. This was the new advisory as of 11/25. Hubby doesn’t want to risk the  $10,000
fine, though  for good hay I probably would😉. 

Lavinia I’m so sorry that you took the time to look at the analysis but neither one is the right test. The second cut one is something that had been deleted.....not sure why it’s there, and the other doesn’t even look familiar. UGH. But what you are saying at least matches my experiences.....every time I check a batch of second cut it’s fine (for s/s). But the hay sellers always try to discourage me from buying. I didn’t want to argue with this woman, but last time I inquired about her low sugar hay she told me the reason it’s low sugar is because the dry it longer so it’s less green. 
I’ll try to find another way to post each, and if I can’t I’ll just type it out.

Donna and Caz

 

Nov 8, 2016

Chesterfield, NJ

Caz Case History.pdf 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0


Sherry Morse
 

Not going to discuss the hay, but Donna you can go into PA to buy hay.  Not sure where you read that you'd have to stay in PA and quarantine here for 2 weeks - I just checked the NJ guidelines and there's nothing about that in there: https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/nj-information/travel-and-transportation/are-there-travel-restrictions-to-or-from-new-jersey and PA is not included in the quarantine guidelines:

Travelers and residents returning from any U.S. state or territory beyond the immediate region (New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Delaware) should self-quarantine at their home, hotel, or other temporary lodging for 14 days.




DBellusci@...
 

Thanks Sherry, I don’t know what is accurate anymore. When I double checked yesterday at PA dept of health (health.pa.gov) it says travelers over age 11 entering PA from locations outside the Commonwealth are required to produce evidence of neg test or place themselves in travel quarantine for 14 days, unless they receive a neg test result during that quarantine. There are exemptions, but none include picking up necessary feed for your animals. One exemption states that if I were a PA resident I could travel out of state and back no problem as long as it’s within 24 hrs. So I could go somewhere high risk in that time and return without getting fined apparently, because Covid knows it’s only been 24 hrs. But of course, the ridiculousness of these restrictions is not the purpose of my post. I don’t see the fine amts on there but my husband showed it to me on his phone back when we were looking at Thanksgiving travel. 

Regardless, I was able to repost the two analyses- one states 2nd cut, the other that doesn’t specify is the first cut according to the growers email. I think either one looks good....I might get some of both. I always retest once it’s in my possession anyway. After reading Lavinia’s response I realize I shouldn’t be second guessing myself when someone throws info at me. 

thank you to all trying to help😊
--
Donna and Caz

 

Nov 8, 2016

Chesterfield, NJ

Caz Case History.pdf 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0


billie hinton
 

I would check your state’s Dept. of Agriculture page. In NC anything related to getting feed/hay/medical or other supplies is exempt from any Covid restrictions. We have a waiver form you can print out and complete to carry with you if needed to go to get anything you need.

Additionally, I belong to a hay co-op that has hay trucked down from Canada once a month and even with borders closed the truck is exempt because it carried feed for horses.

Billie in NC


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Donna,

Neither analysis has the trace minerals done, so no idea about the iron, manganeses status. Both are NIR analyses so the ESC+starch numbers aren't necessarily accurate. That could be more problematic for the 2nd cut if the actual result goes up as the ESC+starch is already 8.5. It could also be lower. Protein is high.

The Dairy One analysis shows the calcium:phos ratio to be inverted, although the ESC+starch appears better at 6.9, which gives you a bit more wiggle room. Protein is is in a good range. NDF is high, which may make this hay too stemmy and unpalatable.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


DBellusci@...
 

Thanks Billie.....I will look into that. 

Lavinia...I appreciate your take on the hay. So it is basically about as lousy as most that I get. I am unfortunately used to having a lot to balance, usually adding Ca and Cu/Zn. I will surely be testing before I feed it, or soaking it for a while 😞.

--
Donna and Caz

 

Nov 8, 2016

Chesterfield, NJ

Caz Case History.pdf 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Donna,

This is a bit off topic, but if you need some alternate sources for hay in that area I have a number of friends not too far from you and may be able to get some supplier names. 



DBellusci@...
 

Oh Sherry that would be awesome. I’ve struggled getting hay since I moved here 3 years ago. I still don’t really know anyone here. The hay grower that I just posted the analysis from messaged me that she doesn’t like the layout of my driveway so she won’t deliver. My life is upside down right now and there is only tomorrow to get to PA now. Decided to do that and risk the fine.....which I found on one site is $300 max. Not sure how I will unload and stack it. But it will be a relief to have something here to feed. I so appreciate the help. This hay will only last 1 1/2 months so it would be nice to have a different plan. Is there a way to private message?
-- 
Donna and Caz

 

Nov 8, 2016

Chesterfield, NJ

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Donna%20and%20Caz

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907

 


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi Donna,
Don't be too put off by 2nd cut hay.  I have some beautiful 2nd cut orchard that is a total 7.5% sugar and last year, from the same field, it was 7.2%.  I also could have gotten a meadow grass that is 7.0% but my girls like orchard better and it's less messy/wasteful.  Wish I could get some to you.
--
Linda  CA  in 2020


DBellusci@...
 

Thank you, that is sweet-I wish you could too! I never saw a problem with second cut when I tested it in the past. I think maybe the growers just try to steer me away from it because they need more 1st cut customers, and they have steady customers that are promised the 2nd cut. But I’d gladly become a steady customer if someone would let me!
--
Donna and Caz

 

Nov 8, 2016

Chesterfield, NJ

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Donna%20and%20Caz

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3907