Hay fertilized with cow manure vs commercial fertilizers....


Trisha DePietro
 

Hi everyone. I just wanted to share a little dilemma I just ran into with the hay that i bought this year. It is a second cut hay with perfect sugar and starch levels....BUT it is unbalanceable because of the Ca:P ratio...I had no idea hay could be unbalanceable....So just wondering if others have found this in their hay that was fertilized with cow manure?  


--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Nancy C
 

I balance for Trisha. Just in quick to add: the Ca;Phos;Mg is .29;.50;.20.

I have found in the literature where "manure" can be high in phos. https://ag.umass.edu/crops-dairy-livestock-equine/fact-sheets/manure-application-on-hay-fields
When manure is used as the sole source of nitrogen for a grass hay crop, other nutrient levels in the soil, specifically phosphorous and potassium may increase over time.

But, if I understand correctly, her grower is also applying a commercial fertilizer with no phos, however rate of application is unknown.

Trisha's two girls are IR and PPID. Let me know if we need to move this to Horsekeeping.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21
2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers 11.09.21
  www.nolaminitis.org



Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

What do you mean by unbalancable?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Dr Kellon

(Edited to add more detail)

Perhaps we should say not "not optimal".

Here are a few numbers for folks following along.

Just to get to Ca;Phos at 1.2;1 per 18 pounds fed, we'd need to add 25 grams elemental of calcium carb, 66 grams by weight.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Trisha%20and%20Dolly%20-%20Hope/EQ143998.pdf

There has also been an issue of horse nettle in hays from these fields.

Speaking just for myself, trying to understand that if this number is real (and it appears from previous hays to be consistent), what is causing this. It is unusual for our area.

Thanks
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21
2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers 11.09.21
  www.nolaminitis.org



Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If you have prior samples showing the same thing, it's real. What are the iron and zinc levels? It has to be from the manure unless there was previous raw phosphorus fertilizer used, which is doubtful. If P is that high, there's significant risk of high nitrates as well.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy C
 

Thanks.

A prior sample from different lot, same field, this year showed high phos.  Not inverted but nearly or at 1:1 (from memory)

Testing results are in the file:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Trisha%20and%20Dolly%20-%20Hope/EQ143998.pdf

To cut to the chase>>>

Iron 145
Zinc 25
Copper 8
Manganese 43
Molybdenum 5.4
Protein 11.5

Molydenum is high for most of the hays around here.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21
2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers 11.09.21
  www.nolaminitis.org



 

This is a real problem in the dry West as a result of excessive fertilization with manure along with inadequate nitrogen fertilizer and inadequate irrigation or rainfall. We see it in garden soils tests in drought years. The problem is described here, how using manure to supply nitrogen ends up with an overload of phosphorus, under the heading How does Soil P Increase. https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/managing-phosphorus-from-animal-manure.html 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


celestinefarm
 

I think we will see higher numbers for phosphorus in hay tests for the next few years as farms will use any available manure for fertilizer as the costs of nitrogen granular or liquid  fertilizer has increased  to record highs. It is also in short supply, my farmer friends have been told by their suppliers that it may not be available 
Fertilizer: "Supply Disruptions Push Prices to New Highs" • Farm Policy News (illinois.edu)
My hay fields I buy get fertilized normally once a year in the fall. I don't think they got it this year, which will definitely hurt yield.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Nancy C
 

Thank you Cass and Dawn for the info. So interesting how geography can make such a difference.  Will have to read the links over coffee tomorrow.

My hay grower has used hen manure for years and years (and years!) without this kind of major mineral mess. This is even before we soil tested and amended as needed. 

I think like everything we do. One needs to test to make sure you know what you are adding.

I think we already know that manure can vary depending on what the animal has been eating. Testing manure is the basis of so much of our "understanding "of what to do for equines. It varies.

But...more reading tomorrow over coffee.

Thanks again for the education.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21
2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers 11.09.21
  www.nolaminitis.org