Date
1 - 10 of 10
Hay Soaking
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Corina Ryan
Hello,
I was listening to the Feed Room Chemists podcast this morning. She mentioned some studies of soaking hay for 9 hours and it removing 4% of the sugar. According to this podcast there was no reduction in protein or other nutrients. I have been following the 30 minutes of hot water soaking. But I am wondering will the sugars be reduced more if I soak for the 9 hours? What is the average reduction of sugar from soaking for the 30 minutes? From lack of experience in this area, I do not have much to compare it to but 4% doesn't seem like a drastic reduction but perhaps it is? Thank you, -- Corina Ryan New Hampshire Joined December 2022 |
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Average reduction with the short soaks is about 30%.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January |
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Corina Ryan
Hello,
Thank you, this is helpful. Is it ever better to soak longer? Thank you, -- Corina Ryan New Hampshire Joined December 2022 |
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You should soak only as long as you have to to get to a safe level so check sugar after soaking and take it from there. I suspect the longer soaks are done for convenience - e.g. when sleeping, when at work.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January |
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Lesley Bludworth
Corina,
I have bermuda hay. For my first analysis of the hay i purchased, I sent a soaked sample and a non soaked sample to equi analytical to get an idea of how much sugar was coming off. Soaking reduced the total esc and starch by about half but it did remove minerals, some, also by about half. I asked Equi-anytical if they had any info about hay soaking and mineral content and they refered me to a study done by Dr. Krishona Martinson at Univerity of Minisota. I think it is called "the effect of soaking on protein and mineral loss in orchard grass and alfalfa hay" She states it depends on hay type and maturity of hay. I have my soaked sample tested and balanced from now on and when feeding,, i am soaking the hay 1 hour and then dumping the water and then rising it again to get the "sweet water" off they hay. I did notice a difference in the number of times i saw my horse peeing after i started to rise it after soaking. -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ 7/2022 Sophie TWH mare IR/EMS, PPID? https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277749 |
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Hi Corina ~
Welcome from a NH neighbor. It really is the amount of water that helps reduce the ESC (simple sugar), as has been evidenced here and in other research over the years. An early study by Longland helped clarify things for the equine community after ECIR members had anecdotally shown much earlier. Amount of water makes a difference. Furthermore, lack of agitation of the hay or the liquor, and the comparatively low volume of soak water probably resulted in shallow concentration gradients resulting in slowed movement of soluble nutrients from the hay. I have soaked 12 hrs for the reason Dr Kellon suggested. Convenience. I used a cooler on wheels to keep this from either making hay beer in the summer or freezing in the winter. My water is not acidic which could drive iron into the hay. In the cooler above, I was able to soak 10 pounds (dry weight) of hay. The reduction of ESC was 50%. The minerals reduced were primarily iron, manganese and potassium, which would be expected. The first two are often ON the hay as soil, mud, etc. Potassium is water soluble and is reduced as a result, but it is unusual that there is not sufficient remaining for more than adequate daily needs. The last year I soaked, Calcium and Magnesium reduced which is unusual,but likely due to applied dolomite lime that did not adequately reach the soil due to drought. Drought was also why the hay was high in ESC that year. Long way around to say, that when you get to the point of adjusting minerals in the diet, you want to make sure you balance your minerals to the soaked hay. Testing will provide the info you need and tell how much your ESC has been lowered. Hope this helps. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022 ECIR Group NEW Case History site open to Early Adopters.
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Corina Ryan
Thank you! This is very helpful. I hadn't thought of rinsing after soaking, but it makes sense.
-- Corina Ryan New Hampshire Joined December 2022 |
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Corina Ryan
Thank you my fellow NH resident! ( I hope you are enjoying this heat wave!). I am preparing to send in my hay test results tomorrow. I think it will be important to include the soaked hay as everyone suggests. I will test with the overnight and the 30 min hot water.
It was also interesting to consider the amount of water. While I think I am using enough, I will see about finding a rock to hold down the hay bag because I do notice it floats up in the water. Or perhaps I will just order a cooler with wheels! Something like that with a drain plug may be useful! :) Thank you! -- Corina Ryan New Hampshire Joined December 2022 |
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Corina, I like to use a bucket full of water to hold down my hay because it's easy to tip it and empty it into the barrel (or over the edge out of the barrel, then lift out empty. I just fill it in place when I fill my soaking barrel. If you have a longer shallow hay soaking trough, a piece of plywood with a weight on top works. Lots of ideas out there, just make it easy and unlikely to cause you an injury/strain.
Other members when testing soaked hay have found large reductions in sugars in shorter times, but I think it depends on water volume vs hay volume, cut edges in the hay (ie chopped vs 3' long stems), and the particular hay in general. For example, changing the soaking water after the first 30 min can lead to an even greater reduction in sugars. I also noticed a significant reduction in Ca and Mg when soaking hay so I agree that if you're going to do it long term, you should test and balance the minerals accordingly. -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
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Corina Ryan
This is incredibly helpful! Thank you! I will try the double bucket idea! Never would have thought of that and also changing the water out at the half way mark! Thank you so much!
-- Corina Ryan New Hampshire Joined December 2022 |
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