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How Long Does the Veil Last?


Allison
 

I have been slowly increasing the Prascend every 4 days. Started at 0.25 we are currently on 0.5. I do not have APF. His appetite is decreased, didnt finish his supper even with 2 hours to eat it, and yesterday when I rode, he was SO. LETHARGIC. Managed to get some cantering in but he was completely out of gas. How long does this last?

On another note, hes now got a rather large ventral edema on his belly, from his sheath forward :( and it doesnt go away with exercise. A new vet is coming tomorrow to take a biopsy for the SCC. 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Candice
 
Edited

HI Allison,

I am sorry your guy is experiencing the pergolide veil! It is so hard to watch them go off their feed and can be frustrating for us as their caretakers to figure out how best to help them through it!

Every horse is different and some horses can experience the veil for long periods of time. 

I would recommend to consider a re-start. Do not give Prascend until he begins to eat again, which I am hoping would be soon. Then once he is eating, begin the titer at .25 and keep him aunthood until he is eating well for several days. I would encourage you to invest in a bottle of APF, which has helped many horses through the veil. Then once you feel he has been on his food and doing well, increase and repeat! Do not rush to get to the 1mg. You will eventually get there. Give him some time to adjust.

Here is a link on where to source APF:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/APF/APF%20Sources.pdf

--

~ Candice P

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

Barefoot Trimmer @ www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Allison
 

He is still eating. Just really really S L O W L Y. Like everything else. On super slow speed. And with him being so underweight,  its troublesome. I have to wait to see if I can get the ADF shipped to canada. I'm going to try riding again today, but won't push him to canter. The swelling is also so worrisome. Not feeling very positive about his physical state right now :( Its like I'm trying to plug holes in a sinking boat and its pouring rain.

Should I discontinue the prascend completely or dial it back to 0.25mg until he picks up again?
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Alison, I noticed Vinnie's inflammatory response also increased when we started prascend and also he did have some central line edema from the sheath. I figured it could have been a histamine response to mosquitos he has some allergies so I kept an eye on it and it did eventually go down. I was using 8 benadryl a day at the time to minimize response and itchiness from mosquito bites.  The are crazy pur here right now in California where I live.

I did make a mental note though that it seemd to correspond with adding in prascend and it showed up at about day 3 of titrating on .25 dose.

Just wanted to share my experience in case it helps.
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Allison
 

Thank you Nancy that helps a lot.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


 

Your case history shows he has been on previcox for 5 weeks … if that is the case, and he is thin, and slow, and not eating well, and just starting the prascend … it might make sense not to ride him for a bit. 
--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History


Allison
 

Ellen can you please explain why you are making this recommendation? 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


 

Guess I am thinking about how I would feel in the same situation … forced exercise with someone on my back, when I'm on pain meds, not eating well, extremely thin, and starting a new medication … plus the edema, and …

You say you are trying to plug holes in a sinking ship … just seems like the right thing to do to me.  

--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History


Allison
 

I see what you're saying.
The only reason I'm riding him is to try and get the sheath swelling and edema down. It takes a good 2 hours to accomplish that completely. I'm not riding him to be a jerk. I'm trying to maintain his ability to urinate, which is already challenged by the SCC. if he cant urinate,  he dies. Basically what it comes down to. 
I don't honestly know why my vet prescribed previcox. I dont know what it's doing or supposed to be doing. I dont think it makes urinating any less painful and he wasn't having any other issues.
I have a new vet coming this morning. Hopefully I get some better answers. Current vet is of zero help when it comes to SCC or PPID.
 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Mary Ann
 

Allison, my 28 year old mare was newly diagnosed in July this year. My vet recommended starting her on 1/2 mg of Prascend and did not mention the possibility of "the veil". It was recommended to me through an Arabian Facebook group I'm in to start her on .25 mg for 4 days and increase the dose as you've done by .25 mg until at full dose. My mare was already on AminoTrace+ from Mad Barn and she did not experience any lethargy or appetite suppression until she was at full dose for a month. Not sure if it was coincidence, but by the time she was at full dose, she also suffered a Uveitis flare up (I'm still treating her with NSAIDs, Omeprazole and probiotics). Her appetite only dropped off slightly while she was on a daily dose of bute. My vet has now switched her to Previcoxx for her eye pain and still no appetite suppression, but she as long as she's on pain meds, she's also being treated with 4mg daily of omeprazole.
--
Mary Ann & Rosie - Nova Scotia, Canada - Joined August 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252134
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20Ann%20and%20Rosie


 

In a previous post on this same day, you said that riding was not helping with the swelling ... feel for you in this situation... Hoping the new vet will be more receptive.

Remember to breath, in and out.

--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History 


Allison
 

I’m sorry if I miscommunicated. Riding was helping then seemed to not help as much, especially with the edema.

vet just left. Swelling too much for him to drop and get a proper exam. Definitely said there’s infection there again :(  and blames the edema and sheath swelling on that. going to go round pen him again at a walk and cold hose and try to get the swelling down enough. Vet is willing to come back again today if we can accomplish that
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Good luck Allison, I hope you can get the swelling down for an exam.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Allison
 

I got the swelling way down but he still wouldnt drop for a full exam. So we are back to another round of antibiotics,  banamine and daily washing with surgical soap. Vet wont do cryotherapy and believes amputation is the only possibility of a cure. He did a full arm rectal exam and didn't feel any tumors in the abdomen so I guess that's good. But amputation is way out of my budget. So...I guess theres nothing more that can be done but try to stave off infection and wait for the inevitable 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Allison,

Would you be able to take and post some pictures of his SCC?  I have a friend whose gelding has a pretty involved growth and while he still can pee he no longer drops all the way to do so.  He's cleaned every other day with just a bit of soapy water to make sure he doesn't get too gooky and she's been treating him with Frankincense both on the growth itself and in his food.  It's about double the size it was when we first noticed it early this year, but so far he's still not bothered by it (other than the not dropping completely). Because of the location amputation isn't an option for him either.  




Allison
 

I have pics! How do I post them in here? Or do I create a photo album?

Omg I have been bawling all day. I'm willing to do and try anything but I just can't afford surgery and its breaking my heart. It seems like recurring infections are my worst enemy right now. Your friend only soaps him every other day? 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Allison,

Ok, so to make a photo album, it's actually easier than the Case History folder.  Go here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photos and click on the blue "New Album" button and name it "Allison and Sonseeahray".  Then I would recommend clicking the button for 
Personal AccessOnly you and the moderators can add photos to this album.

Once you click the "Create" button you will be IN the album so you can use the blue "Add Photos" button to upload photos.  

As far as the SCC - yes, every other day.  I'll be over there tomorrow to feed in the morning so I'll see if I can get some pictures to share as well.  His is located right at the edge of his sheath so the every other day seems to be working for him and he hasn't had any infections either.  Obviously every horse is an individual but I do know of one who lived 2 or 3 years after diagnosis and his owner didn't do a whole lot with him to try to treat it.




Allison
 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=254641

Ok! This is all I have. The last two pics are a chunk that I pinched off the tip after the vet left the second time.. He was way behind in his day so he didnt really give the Ace much time to work. But I wanted to clean him while I had the benefit of the sedation and I found this chunk dangling so I pinched it off. I could see the tip peeking out a bit but couldn't get it to stay put for me to take more pics. The first 4 pics are from 6 weeks ago when the first vet was able to get him to extend enough.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


tosborne@...
 

I also have a horse going through the veil, at least we think that is what is happening.  He started 1/2 tablet Prascend on Sept 29th.  He had been eating Mad Barn AminoTrace without any hesitation for approximately 12 days prior to starting the Prascend.  On Sept 30th, my barn manager reported that he took the carrot with his Prascend quite eagerly, but only ate about 10 mouthfuls of his beetpulp with his supplements.  Oct 1st, refused beet pulp completely.  Oct 2-4th, we've been trying different combinations of soak Timothy cubes, beet pulp - no matter what we try, he will not eat more than 5-10 mouthfuls.  We removed all supplements because he acted as though he didn't like the smell of his feed.  Still no difference.  However, he is still eating his hay very well.  His weight is good, so as long as he is eating hay and drinking water, I'm not going to panic - but he does have high iron in his blood test and I do have to address that with supplements soon.  What makes me wonder if this is the fact that he is not at all lethargic, if anything he is stupidly energetic.  So much so that yesterday he was tearing around, rearing and acting the gawk and injured his arthritic knee.
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Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers


tosborne@...
 

I should add that I am unable to find a retailer carrying APF in Ontario or Canada.  I even tried Amazon and while they show a listing for it, it says no longer available
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Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers