I just posted Mr. Black's case history and hay analysis-please advise me!


F Sanford
 

Please advise.  I need help balancing my horses diet.  Presently he is eating soaked hay from Stall Lot#2 hay analysis, 18-20lbs a day,  2 lbs of Stabul1 grain, 1/4 heaping cup of Vermont Blend Mineral Balancer, 2000mg Vit E and 2 tbsp of White iodized table Salt.  (Split into two feedings with slow hay feed nets)  My concern is that the iron in my hay is high.  How do I compensate for this?  Also the vet is coming to retest the last week in October.  I want to make sure I test for everything that should be tested.  How or where can I obtain a feeding consult?  I have another horse that also tested positive.  UGH!
Thank You!  
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Florence in upstate NY joined September 2021
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Florence%20and%20Mr%20Black


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Florence, 

The iron in both of your hays is fine.  The upper limit for toxicity is 500 ppm.  The Lot 2 hay will need more minerals added to offset the high iron, that is all.  It also appears to be high in moisture and could easily mold.  Does the hay feel dry to you, or is it moist and heavy? 

Take a look at the Diet Balancing file:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing
There is a document called "HAY BALANCING-1" with a list of our approved balancers.  You can contact anyone on the list.

It looks like blood was pulled after 2 days on the emergency diet, and although his insulin was definitely elevated it had likely already come down due to your hay soaking.  That said, I don't think an ACTH of 46.1 pg/ml on August 30 (3 weeks from the peak seasonal rise) is a strong positive result.  Did your vet discuss with you how ACTH climbs in the late summer to fall and the reference range of 9-35 is for outside the seasonal rise?  I don't think there is any harm in trialing pergolide due to the timing of this hoof pain because ACTH can be normal and a horse can still have PPID, but I mention it because you might need to consider that Mr Black could have insulin resistance from EMS, not from PPID or not just from PPID.  That would mean he needs attention paid to reducing sugars in his diet going forward.

Does the foot pain coincide with starting the Lot 2 hay?   Legumes in hays can cause hoof pain in EMS horse.  Maybe you could switch him to Lot 1 to see if that helps. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


F Sanford
 

I did not start feeding (soaked) lot2 hay until  October 8th.  Only started soaking any hay (lot1)on  August 28 pm, Saturday.  He was tested Monday August 30 afternoon draw. 

when should I retest?? 

thank you for responding!


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Florence in upstate NY joined September 2021
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Florence%20and%20Mr%20Black


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Typically we advise retesting 3 weeks after the horse has been on the full prescribed dose of pergolide.  While the pergolide will help lower his ACTH, it's the insulin that causes laminitis and Mr Black's insulin was definitely too high on Aug 30, so in addition to checking ACTH, make sure insulin is tested, too.  I also advise doing glucose, too.  If you can have him tested at the same time of day after the same feeding routine, and have the blood sent to the same lab, that is ideal.

In December you could consider stopping the pergolide and having a TRH Stim test done in January.  This will confirm/refute the diagnosis since your August result wasn't particularly elevated.  If the Stim test comes back normal, it's would indicate negative for PPID and you won't have to medicate. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album