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Ideal weight


Kandace Krause
 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Weights%20and%20Measures/How%20to%20Find%20Ideal%20Body%20Weight.pdf

I am trying to detirmine if I am getting close to Ideal weight and where to go from here  I have been fired by vet clinic because I have questioned things the vet said that seemed to contradict what I found here.
I know I am due for new blood work for "K" but I don't have a vet to do so and I am a bit concerned about the results from the companion animal vet who did last tests.
The first one was impossibly low and the retest was higher than previous test, but all I got was a typed email with the numbers, not the actual sheet from lab showing results.
Note I am just weighing feed to do new CH update including last rads from trim and then reset of NANRIC Ultimates.  At that time "K" had more than 50% new sole growth and I felt optimistic that we were making good progress but I am not so sure now.  What I was told about leaving these devices on her feet was that the times failure to recover had been seen where the times when devices were removed too soon, before hoof walls were really ready to support horse and activity
Some specific questions I would ask an equine vet would be, if Insulin numbers have risen since ceasing Metformin, is it good to go back to it?
                                                                                                do some horses need Metformin for life and, if so, what kind of life do they really have?
                                                                                                Is it normal to have lameness still, with trim to where it is now?
Should be up in an hour.
Thanks for your patience and answers.
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Kandice, 

I don't see a CH for K posted at your link.  It looks like it was uploaded into the folder ("Files") area, but it needs to be moved in to your actual folder.  It is here, just a few down from the top if this list of the most recently loaded files:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files?p=updated,,,20,2,0,0

If she was taken off Metformin and her insulin went up, then it may be it was helping so you could put her back on it. She started it on Jan 5 but her Jan 14 bloodwork does not show an improvement.  Her February bloodwork is better (see below) so was she still on it?  Metformin typically loses its effectiveness with time and eventually they are taken off of it because it's not helping.  Some horses don't seem to benefit from it at all.  It can be useful to get horses that respond to it through periods where insulin is high and laminitis is occurring though.  I think the goal for you is to get K sound so she can be back in work.  Then with regular exercise she might not need any more help keeping her insulin down other than some care with her diet.

Her latest insulin from Antech is not bad though.  If you divide 226 pmol/L by 6, you get 37.7 uIU/mL.  Of course results from different labs cannot be compared directly, but it gives you a rough idea of how she is now, compared to before.   Her glucose at Antech was abnormally high though.  Was her blood pulled more than 4 hrs after her morning meal?

Ideal weight is what she weighs when her BCS is 4.5-5 / 9.  For a 15H Arab-AT, I would guess 900 lbs is closer to ideal.   But you can judge that yourself based on her body condition score.

As far as the NANRIC shoes and her trim, I'll leave that to someone more experienced, other than to say I personally can't see how they are helping as they seem to be encouraging her to stand with her weight on her toes, if the recent rads are representative of her stance.  I think the idea is to allow them to rock back on their heels more easily to relieve toe pressure?  But they look so unstable and hard to walk on that I can't visualize in my mind how they are helping.  Her trim looks pretty good though and she does have sole depth.  But you need someone more knowledgeable to comment on this.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Kandace Krause
 

I don't quite understand the CH problem but will look when I can get to PC.
She was still on metformin when Feb blood draw was taken, but has since finished, so I think it important to get that retested, to see if it has gone back up since drug stopped.  The draw was apprx four hours past start of a.m. feed.  It was first glucose number I had seen as equine vet felt it unnecessary.
She is 15.2, will check my CH reflects that.
I find the BCS 1-9 too easy to bluff myself through.  And is currently too hairy to really be convinced of ribs. This horse has a way more hair than she ever has before!  I saw a British method using a three body section scoring one to five per section and feel it is less subjective under winter coats, anyways.  If I go back to that, I get her to a 3.5/5 , likely a few more pounds to go.

As far as the devices, NANRICS go, I too cannot fully explain how they work but was told that since we had started down this road, we should continue with it.  When I find another vet, I will be leaving the Specialized farrier to explain to vet and hopefully to me.  When I was told about them I googled Ultimate boot and came up with a riding boot, there wasn't ever any mention of NANRIC at the time, and I wasn't aware of the rocker on the bottom until it was already done, the dumbed down version seemed to be taking tension off the deep digital flexor.  My anatomy is not great and I never claimed to be an expert but I have been prescribed drugs and procedures and ideas by "experts" for my own health that haven't worked so I do question "what about" - everything.  The inventor Rick Redding, is a farrier turned vet and has been doing this for some time, but more than that I do not claim to know. 

Thanks again, Kirsten.




--Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Your Case History file is not inside your folder, it is outside of your folder.  That's all.  You just have to move it in when you get a chance.

I agree it's hard to determine BCS with a thick winter coat.  I can still easily feel my horse's ribs through it, but I can't see them and evaluate fully if his BCS has gone down over winter but I know it has not gone up.   However, I have found for him (a 15.1 Paso Fino that is bigger-boned than most Arabs) his BSC is at 4.5 when his weight tape says he is 910 lbs.  I will be taking him to a scale to get an actual weight this spring, so I know what that corresponds to on the weight tape.   Originally I thought his ideal weight was about 960 so we worked on that goal for a while and when he finally got there that put him at a BSC of about 5, not bad, he looked quite good.  Then I started soaking his hay and he lost another 50 or so pounds and now I think he looks best close to 900 lbs where I can usually see a faint trace of ribs.

Keep monitoring glucose.  It is in the diabetic range.  If  the next one is also abnormally high that may be significant.  Try and have blood pulled at the same time after the same meal.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Kandace Krause
 

Kirsten, just to be clear, I am to "demand" glucose test again?  Equine vet didn't see point, dog vet did it without asking.
thanks,
Kandace
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kandace,

If it was abnormally high last time (and I can't find a case history for K to confirm this) then yes, it needs to be monitored.




Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Glucose should not be above the reference range, and if all she was eating was hay then that makes it even more abnormal.  I would not panic and I'm not sure how significant it is  without Dr Kellon weighing in on it because K's insulin was not very high (it is elevated but not excessively high).  Just have glucose done again next time to confirm it, or negate it.  My horse had one glucose at the uppermost end of the reference range once but when I got him on a lower sugar hay, it came down along with his insulin.

Your Case History is missing now...I was just going to double check your glucose result.  I'm guessing you are working on putting it in your folder?

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album