Date
1 - 7 of 7
Introduction and questions
|
LNGERZ@...
Seems like my mules have had Cushings for a lot longer than most of your
horses. Weird thing is, we tested the biggest one, Sadie, first for Thyroid problems because I was feeling her neck one 1997 June day and Voila, an enlarged thyroid! Then we adjusted her thyroid levels, only to find out with other testing that she had Cushings. No long wavy coat, but a late shedder. Had the cresty neck and now has the fat deposits, like on her butt, above her tail. She has had one abscess during the past three years, and quite a few bouts with what I am now calling "chronic laminitis." She has her hooves trimmed regularly every 6 weeks, is on a good diet, with supplements, Thyrol and liquid cyproheptadine. I am not really liking the way her feet have looked (some separations, little old bloody spots) after her trims since I started the liquid. Has anyone else had this problem or noticed that the liquid doesn't seem to be as effective as the pills, (or is it in my head?) Daisy Donkey, the "Poster Donkey Picture" of a a hypothyroid mini-donkey tested out to be exactly that in Sept. of 1997, but strangely enough, she, cresty neck, fat deposits all over, and tiny little hooves, is not a Cushings Syndrome patient. She is on ThyroL only, and does very well, thank you for asking. (Daisy is VERY polite) Pandora Mule is aptly named, because she is a veritable "Pandora's Box" when it comes to complications of Cushings. She was diagnosed in Nov of 97 and don't ask me why we waited so long. She was a little less hypothyroid, but has had so many abscesses in every hoof that I truly have lost count. She has been to Cornell for an assessment of her condition. (She had both hind hooves wrapped at that time, abscesses had been removed, partial hoof resections, both hooves by my vet, then taken to Cornell for consultation) Some days I can hardly bear to look out at Pandora, I know if it is 10 days after trimming, and she has a limp, we will see 3-legged lame within the next day and by Day 14, she will have had an abscess break out on her coronary band. I am presently wrapping both Pandora and Sadie's hooves with disposable diapers and Duct Tape. It is very wet here, they were just trimmed last Tuesday and this seems to help cut down on Pandora's abscesses. Sadie -- well, I am doing her just to make me feel better. Can you tell I am a retired RN? I pass meds out here morning and night, it seems, and yes, the only thing I hope to do with the Cyproheptadine is control the signs/symptoms of Cushings. That is all any of us can hope for, since there truly is no treatment that can lead to a cure. My vet tells me that "they" are now looking into laminitis with more focus on Cushings. It might end up being a "Which came first -- the chicken or the egg?" thing when the studies are completed. Will I live that long? Will the mules? Do you know that a donkey could live to be 50 or 60 years old? Yes, my daughters are counting the days/months/years. Kay, in NY Yep, still another Kay |
|
|
|
LNGERZ@...
Jackie,
You really DO NEED to shake that med like crazy, but each time it is easier after the initial SHAKE! If you don't do that, you are not giving the correct dosage. Keep on Shaking and Shaking, or you will have all the "good stuff" left in the bottom of the bottle! I know exactly what you are talking about -- been there, done that and finally had success. Kay, who is obsessed with these meds. Who gets what now? Oh, good lunchtime, no one needs meds, not even the dog, who, incidentally is hypothyroid too. And yes, on a whim and at the suggestion of an "Online Vet -- Dr. Julie, maybe you knew her from the Horse Forum -- I had my blood tested for thyroid levels too -- $249 later -- I am "Normal????" My husband questions that every day, but that is another novel. So good luck to all of us, and let's have a toast to beating or at least controlling Cushings in our equines. Make that "well shook cyproheptadine for me!" Kay in NY |
|
|
|
Barbara P. <MorganPinesFarm@...>
Hi. My name is Barbara and I live in Va. I have a 20 year old
Andalusian mare, Amiga, whom we believe has Cushing's. I've only had her since September but I do have a sketchy history. When she was 10 she foundered. Her vet felt it was due to extreme overweight, put her on a diet ( no grain) and also Thyrol-L. The main purpose of the Thyrol was to help keep her weight down. Five years later she went very lame but according to her owner, the vet did not say it was laminitis per se, but an inflammation. At no time was Cushing's even mentioned. Over the last 10 years she was off and on the Thyrol-depending on what her blood work showed. For the last 3 years she was on it full time ( 2 scoops per day) and her weight has been down. When I got her she was pretty much a backyard pet, had not been ridden for 5 or 6 years. She had a very thick coat already for Sept. ( red flags started to go up) but I thought it might be because she came from New England and was putting on her winter coat. The other strange thing was that even though she had lost about 400 pounds, she had lumpy fat pockets in the strangest places. Under my vet's instruction, we started decreasing the Thyrol-testing her every few months until we had her down to ½ scoop per day. I had her on ABC plus as well as Grand Flex, no grain, grass hay. I started riding her very gradually (soft footing) until by May we were ready to try our first dressage show. Then bang, about the middle of May she went lame. She was acting like a foundered horse but had not heat or pulse. I had been limiting her grass so my vet didn't feel that was the problem. When we compared her present x-rays to those of 5 years ago there was very little change. The only clue was that her insulin level was way high. So based on that we started treating her as a Cushingoid horse. At some point we will do more testing but not the dex. suppression test. Here's where we're at right now. She was on bute until she started walking comfortably. I just started her on devil's claw. She's barefoot and is doing well, will trot sound and has even picked up a canter in the field. I'm working with both a traditional vet and an alternative one and taking the best of both. She's getting 1 scoop of Thyrol, ABC plus, 150 mg of cyproheptadine (liquid), devil's claw capsules, 100 mg. Co Q 10 and something called Core Level Pituitary. She gets a tiny amount of Horse Chow wet down so she will eat all of this. She has free choice grass hay and still limited grass until things dry up. These are my questions: 1. Most of you seem to use pergolide. Is it because the cypro stopped working? 2. Do you find that your horses can't tolerate the heat? Amiga is in most of the day with fans and I either hose her or sponge her with alcohol/water. 3. My vet would like to keep her without shoes if possible. My pasture is flat and fairly rock free and I had her barefoot until March when I thought I would be taking her out to shows. What is the consensus about shoes? 4. I've seen a lot of you mention Thyrol. I'm beginning to wonder if lowering her dose may have triggered this latest flare up. 5. Speaking of flare ups-are there any clues to watch for or will she just be sound one day and lame the next? Also, is there any hope of riding her again? She was doing so well and I think was enjoying being ridden-it gave her a purpose. Sorry this was so long. I look forward to being a part of these boards. It was thanks to Marie and Sue that I found them. Barbara |
|
|
|
LNGERZ@...
I also can count on the bug bites causing hives on Pandora about July 15th.
She is so darn predictable. Then she has to have an injection of an antihistamine because she foundered her original time after Azium for that problem. Not sure, but that seems to have triggered the whole Cushings thing, or at least we finally realized what the heck was going on with her. Actually, I can give you just a tiny bit of advice with your mini-donkey! DO NOT overfeed. You will find that they can gain on almost nothing. Never have I seen an animal gain as easily as she does, even with her thyroid condition under control. But she is really a Houdini with the fences and is too smart. Literally is a "Smart Ass!" Her tiny feet have had two problems in about 9 years. She got ice in her hoof once, and when the new, young vet came to check her out, she held perfectly still, looking in my eyes as I held her. Unfortunately the NEW YOUNG vet, took her temp and was checking out the location of his thermometer. Yep, WHAM, right on his cheek and never did she get that wild eyed look that horses get, where you see the whites of their eyes and know there is going to be trouble. She just nuzzled into my hands, and let him have it. He was so embarrassed and I told him to tell the people at the clinic that a Clydesdale had done it. He said that they knew they had sent him out to check out a mini-donkey. The second time Daisy Mae Donkey had a foot problem, she had stepped on some nail or something. Now this could have really amounted to something with the mules, but with Daisy -- instant lameness -- vet came -- cleaned it out, a few days of soaks, dressings and a little vetwrap and she was cured. I had a new harness made just for her, and she only tried it on once, never bothered to drive her. Should have, just didn't. Had a second girth made for Daisy too, and by the time the harness maker had it made, it was already 6" too short. See what I mean about how easy they gain? We are talking almost ZERO feed, maybe a tablespoon am and pm for her meds, and grass hay. Hey, this is the end of my novel on Father's Day. It is raining here again! Kay in NY |
|
|
|
Jackie Rice <jrice@...>
Regarding liquid cyproheptidine, my horse just went on it May 25. He'll be trimmed June 28th, so I'll watch for the spots you are talking about. The liquid has settled out on the bottom and I can't resuspend it for the life of me no matter how hard I shake it. So that would be my caution on the liquid. Next time I'll be sure to get a bottle that hasn't settled or use the pills.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: LNGERZ@... To: EquineCushings@... Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] Introduction and questions Seems like my mules have had Cushings for a lot longer than most of your horses. Weird thing is, we tested the biggest one, Sadie, first for Thyroid problems because I was feeling her neck one 1997 June day and Voila, an enlarged thyroid! Then we adjusted her thyroid levels, only to find out with other testing that she had Cushings. No long wavy coat, but a late shedder. Had the cresty neck and now has the fat deposits, like on her butt, above her tail. She has had one abscess during the past three years, and quite a few bouts with what I am now calling "chronic laminitis." She has her hooves trimmed regularly every 6 weeks, is on a good diet, with supplements, Thyrol and liquid cyproheptadine. I am not really liking the way her feet have looked (some separations, little old bloody spots) after her trims since I started the liquid. Has anyone else had this problem or noticed that the liquid doesn't seem to be as effective as the pills, (or is it in my head?) Daisy Donkey, the "Poster Donkey Picture" of a a hypothyroid mini-donkey tested out to be exactly that in Sept. of 1997, but strangely enough, she, cresty neck, fat deposits all over, and tiny little hooves, is not a Cushings Syndrome patient. She is on ThyroL only, and does very well, thank you for asking. (Daisy is VERY polite) Pandora Mule is aptly named, because she is a veritable "Pandora's Box" when it comes to complications of Cushings. She was diagnosed in Nov of 97 and don't ask me why we waited so long. She was a little less hypothyroid, but has had so many abscesses in every hoof that I truly have lost count. She has been to Cornell for an assessment of her condition. (She had both hind hooves wrapped at that time, abscesses had been removed, partial hoof resections, both hooves by my vet, then taken to Cornell for consultation) Some days I can hardly bear to look out at Pandora, I know if it is 10 days after trimming, and she has a limp, we will see 3-legged lame within the next day and by Day 14, she will have had an abscess break out on her coronary band. I am presently wrapping both Pandora and Sadie's hooves with disposable diapers and Duct Tape. It is very wet here, they were just trimmed last Tuesday and this seems to help cut down on Pandora's abscesses. Sadie -- well, I am doing her just to make me feel better. Can you tell I am a retired RN? I pass meds out here morning and night, it seems, and yes, the only thing I hope to do with the Cyproheptadine is control the signs/symptoms of Cushings. That is all any of us can hope for, since there truly is no treatment that can lead to a cure. My vet tells me that "they" are now looking into laminitis with more focus on Cushings. It might end up being a "Which came first -- the chicken or the egg?" thing when the studies are completed. Will I live that long? Will the mules? Do you know that a donkey could live to be 50 or 60 years old? Yes, my daughters are counting the days/months/years. Kay, in NY Yep, still another Kay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve chased up a treeSteve and a stinky snake Steve and some sharp teeth Steve gets bit by a python ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Equine Cushings email addresses: Post message: EquineCushings@... Subscribe: EquineCushings-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: EquineCushings-unsubscribe@... List owner: EquineCushings-owner@... Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/EquineCushings |
|
|
|
Kay Howitt <akkray@...>
Hi Barbara, good luck with your mare Amiga. It sounds like she has a good
home with you. I think Andalusians are very beautiful horses. You asked a few questions...here's what applied to me and Domino. He is on pergolide because he didn't respond at all to ciproheptadine. I don't know how he would do in heat, as we are in Fairbanks and it hasn't yet gotten above 80 degrees, plus Domino has been on stall rest for nearly 2 months. I did have to blanket him extra heavily in last winter's cold (minus 40 at lowest) and he had a hard time keeping his weight on. I would love to keep him barefoot, but we are rocky here and he's been lame since the end of February. My vet is using Dr. Ric Redden's therapuetic shoeing with impression material and rail shoes. My horse has rather mild rotation, but the coffin bone has sunk about 3 mm in both right front feet and there is an abscess in the left. If we/he lived in a warmer climate with shorter winters we'd have more options and more time to deal with everything. Kay in AK |
|
|
|
Kay Howitt <akkray@...>
Hi Kay...great name!
My goodness, you have certainly had some bad luck with so many Cushing's cases. It seems a weird coincidence to have several at once. I sure hope there's research going on about Cushing's, as it is a difficult and puzzling syndrome. I suspect Domino has had Cushing's for more than the past three years, but there's no way to know. About 7 years ago he had surgery to remove a large shoe boil and it took him 7 months to heal the surgical wound and the abscess that developed in a front foot. Those complications sound awfully like they were Cushing's related to me. Last year he had a second surgery to remove a new shoe boil (had not been able to prevent it despite every kind of protective device you could imagine.) Again the wound wouldn't heal and he developed a full blown case of laminitis. In my heart I believe he's had Cushing's for at least 7 years (age 15 or 16). I'll be getting a miniature donkey this summer and keeping my fingers crossed neither she nor my Icelandic gelding ever, ever develop Cushing's. Kay in AK |
|
|