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Jiaogulan - What if It's not Working?


Allison
 

Hello,

I purchased the 10:1 extract of Jiaogulan from MadBarn and started giving it to Keegan on November 13. We have slowly increased it to the point that he is now getting 1/2 tsp of this extract twice a day. I am religious about giving it to him 20 minutes before a meal, and he's always getting it on a fairly empty stomach since he gets it well after his last hay meal has run out. I am not seeing a difference in his comfort level on a consistent basis.

How long do I keep trying it before I know that it's not really doing any good? 

What does the fact that it's not helping mean? That he wasn't/isn't laminitic? What is my next option to try for pain? I have been reading about CBD but I'm in Canada and the cost is prohibitive. Not to mention the fact that I'd need a prescription for it, I think.

We had a bodyworker come out last Saturday, and she spent over 1.5 hrs with him. Gave me exercises to do (fascial release, stretches) as homework until her next visit in 10 weeks, and said we can slowly build up the hand walking daily, starting at 2 to 3 minutes. I did a slow motion video of his walking in his new Gloves with a triangular pad just for his frogs inserted, and he was so close to heel first landings that it was very hard to say either way. I had only been putting them on for these short hand walks since the ground was a muddy mess, but now that it's frozen up, I'm putting them on for turnout after work tonight, as he's very uncomfortable on the frozen ground.

So...pain relief options?? Suggestions?

--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Allison,

I've bought CBD oil online,in Canada,fir a number of years,no script.
It's even more available now,with law changes,than it was then.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Allison
 

OH!! haha I thought I needed a script. What is the cheapest cost per day of giving this to a horse? From what I could find it was looking like at least $3/day for the trim/shake which is pretty pricey, IMO.

--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Allison,

His radiographs don't show any sign of laminitis but he does have extensive navicular disease. You'll get the best results, in time, with getting his trim straightened out and being obsessive about keeping it that way.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lorna Cane
 

Sorry if this gets repeated. I'm having trouble replying to messages today.

Here's a place to start,for info. You should search out more.
https://dailycbd.com/en/best-cbd/horses/ 

I think Tori's owner,mentioned in above, is still a member here.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Allison
 

Thank you for your response Dr. Kellon. I didn't personally think the X-rays showed laminitis, but others suggested it was a possibility due to the history, so that's why I tried the Jiaogulan.  In your estimation, since it's navicular, what would be a good and cost effective pain management or anti inflammatory option for him? I'm definitely allllll over the trim corrections, and pretty much obsess over that weekly.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I would stay with the Jiaogulan for inflammation and soft tissue.  Keep him in boots with heel elevation pad 24/7 until the underrun heels are corrected.  For joint support, this is best https://www.bioequine.com/joint-supplement-horses.html#/ .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Allison
 

Dr. Kellon, if I may ask you two more questions...

First regarding Jiaogulan...should I increase the dosage, stay where we are at, or decrease?

Secondly...The joint support that you are recommending... will this be something he will always need, or is this just for rehab purposes? I realize this is the gold standard for joint support, but I'm not sure I can sustain the cost of that particular recommendation, long term. What is the most important ingredient(s) to consider? If he's going to need joint support for the rest of his life, I need to find a more affordable alternative.

Thanks,--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


 

Allison, I have not given jiaogulan before but, from my reading here, I think it is dosed by what is required to get an increase in gum color.  That would be indicative of increased blood flow.  It’s possible though that you were told differently for a reason.
As they explain on the joint supplement web page, chondroitin is the most expensive ingredient and most crucial for repair.  If you began using that in concert with the other things Dr. Kellon listed then it seems like you could try decreasing the chondroitin as his recovery shows obvious progress.  
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Allison
 


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Allison,

Do an archive search for glucosamine. 
Two important messages from that search are these, to help explain why glucosamine is not recommended.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/257222

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/257235

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Allison
 

There is a significant amount of glucosamine in the product dr kellon suggested i use. So I'm confused now.??
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Allison,

My cardinal rule is....stick with what Dr. Kellon says.


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes, keep Jiaogulan the same - and make sure you use with a properly mineral balanced diet.

For non-IR horses, glucosamine is the most important and you can usually find it as a bulk powder. Give 10,000 mg/day.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Allison,

We have no evidence Keegan has laminitis or EMS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Allison
 

Thank you for your assistance.  His minerals have been custom balanced so no concerns there. I now have a clearer path of treatment.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0