Lack Of Immunity in Well Controlled PPID Horse


Rebecca Reddicliffe Bigelow
 

I've read the messages and suggestions for boosting Immunity in horses with uncontrolled PPID. My horse is now technically well controlled as to PPID by ACTH numbers and is dietarily balanced for his long standing metabolic issues. Even with these under control he is having major Immune compromise issues. His diet is Timothy Balance cubes, 17 lbs a day (which seems like a lot to me but that's what its taking to keep him from loosing weight), salt, Vit E, Flax and a probiotic. He's had multiple summer sores over the last 2 years, conjunctivitis, white line disease, and now what appears to be a sinus infection with purulent looking discharge from one nostril. Is there anything else I can do to help him resist these problems? 
Various people have suggested multiple immune supplements such as SmartPak Smart Immune Pellets, a host of herbal supplements and Zeolite. He's taking SMZ currently for the nasal discharge.  I'd like to stay well within the "first do no harm" philosophy as well as not throwing money away on things that won't help. I'd appreciate suggestions. 
--
Rebecca
July 2009, Sacramento, California
Case History, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch%20-%20Snuggles/Dutch  .
Dutch Photos, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=857  .


Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Rebecca 
You should get a more detailed reply from one of our experienced mods and I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong, but if Dutch were my horse and had these symptoms, I would first get a general checkup and complete blood test from my vet, then if there are no red flags from that consultation, I would try increasing his pergolide. ACTH numbers do not tell the whole story—there are many hormones involved in PPID, and we need to manage these horses by symptoms also. 


--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Nancy C
 

Hi Rebecca

Has ACTH been tested since 08.2021? Could you load those results please?

Thanks
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President 2021-2022

HOW TO SEARCH THE ARCHIVES: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1993


Rebecca Reddicliffe Bigelow
 

I recently tried to update his case history and flubbed up the upload. I'll try again soon. His ACTH 8/22 was 3.9 within a range of 1.9 to 9. His ACTH has been within that range for more than 3 years. I increased his Prascend about 9 months or so ago to 1 and a half daiy while I was struggling to control his insulin and seeing lots of hair growth.
--
Rebecca
July 2009, Sacramento, California
Case History, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch%20-%20Snuggles/Dutch  .
Dutch Photos, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=857  .


Rebecca Reddicliffe Bigelow
 

General Blood Chemistry done in August was all within normal limits. My vet, who I'm in touch with very frequently due to Dutch's frequent flyer status, has done all the reasonable blood work including a trace mineral check which was also normal. 
--
Rebecca
July 2009, Sacramento, California
Case History, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch%20-%20Snuggles/Dutch  .
Dutch Photos, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=857  .


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It looks like your case history is not up to date so it's difficult to say too much. When was his last ACTH and what was it? Insulin? CBC? Chemistry?  How much flax?   What type and dose of vitamin E? Older horses in general also have decreased immunity, just like older humans do.  Has he had skull films to rule out tooth as the source of that discharge? It's VERY common in older horses too. SmartImmune would be fine for general support but summer sores aren't necessarily a poor immunity issue; they're a parasitic problem. (Speaking of parasites, what is his deworming schedule?). Conjunctivitis is usually a hypersensitivity to flies which immune support won't help except for Spirulina. A fly mask is the best answer. White line contributing factors are mineral balance, trim and weak white line connections from high insulin plus probably unrecognized environmental risk factors.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Sorry, I should have read the entire thread first. What is his insulin now? Any other signs of uncontrolled PPID like the coat or urination?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


Anna.warzecha4@...
 

I use the immune herbs from silver lining. They have helped my PPID horses that used to get scratches and other skin issues and they no longer get those things when on the immune herbs. 
--
Anna Warzecha, MI, 2022

Joker (IR), Coco (PPID, IR)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anna%20Warzecha:%20Joker%20%28IR%29,%20Coco%20%28PPID%29


Rebecca Reddicliffe Bigelow
 

Case History has now been updated to the best of my ability. I can't find a current copy of his latest bloodwork that was done in August for his CBC and Chemistry but it was reported to be within normal limits. We were battling the second case of the intra urethral summer sore that was causing so much trouble. We did a urinalysis and checked for protein, glucose, ketones and neutrophils which didn't show up. The latest insulin on Sept 1st was 18.4 and glucose was 88. His coat is always thick and I have to clip him in September. When he's working he has too much coat for Northern CA. I've noticed no excessive urination.
--
Rebecca
July 2009, Sacramento, California
Case History, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch%20-%20Snuggles/Dutch  .
Dutch Photos, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=857  .


 

Hi Rebecca,
I’m not sure I have much to offer here but, if he were my horse, I would probably try increasing his pergolide as a trial to see if that helps with his issues.  After reading Dr. Kellon’s post, I’m not sure why it would but doing so shouldn’t cause any issues.  Pergolide does not seem to control long hair coat.  There are other hormones at play which may be causing issues even while the ACTH is controlled.

I was not familiar with summer sores so I did some reading.  You probably know all you want to about them but, for others, here’s a link I found.  It reminds me of some of the severe inflammatory reactions I often see from tick bites here.  

You can most likely get another copy of the most recent blood work report from the vet.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Rebecca Reddicliffe Bigelow
 

Dutch's nasal discharge appears to be improving at day 8 of the SMZ. If it doesn't resolve we will probably x ray and do more blood tests and culture the discharge. He wears a fly mask 24/7 until or if we get a hard freeze. He is wormed with ivermectin periodically and every time a summer sore starts. He broke out in hives after the last dose of Quest I gave him last year so I don't use that anymore. I'll get the results from the vet for his most recent blood chemistry and get them uploaded. Is there anything else that I could add that might help him or have I got everything covered as well as I can. 
--
Rebecca
July 2009, Sacramento, California
Case History, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch%20-%20Snuggles/Dutch  .
Dutch Photos, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=857  .


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Sounds good, Rebecca. The CBC sometimes gives insights into immune function/challenges.

My go-to immunostimulant, e.g. horses trapped in quarantine in a barn with an infectious disease, is levamisole, 3 mg/kg orally. It works very well.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."