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Laminitis/Founder podcast episode

Alicia Harlov
 

I have a podcast interview set up with Dr. Andrew Van Eps at the end of this month on the topic of laminitis/founder. I saw him give a handful of lectures on the subject two weeks ago and was impressed with how much of what he said DID align with ECIR teachings. He talked about the three causes of laminitis: metabolic/endocrinopathic (most common), sepsis, and supporting limb (very rare). He recommends a forage based diet with vitamin/mineral supplementation, controlled careful movement for good blood perfusion, proper testing of ACTH in PPID cases and increasing pergolide dosages to ACTH levels and retesting levels to check if dosage is correct, and how finding the root cause and addressing the root cause of the laminitis is the only way to rehab it. He also mentioned that we CAN see rotation grow out as healthy laminae grows down. 
He also mentioned the times times when grass is highest in sugar, etc. and all aligned with what I've learned in the past few years here and through PHCP hoofcare school. 

I was really impressed with his talks so asked if he would be on my podcast. One topic I really want him to talk about for it is cryotherapy. I was incredibly intrigued by the studies he has done on cryotherapy, which showed amazing results on the cellular level in the laminae in preventing damage to the laminae. I do know ECIR does NOT recommend cryotherapy for metabolic cases, but I do believe Dr. Van Eps tested it on metabolic cases as well. He did say it is NOT good to ice intermittently and that does nothing. 

Why do these studies that he has done show such decreased damage to laminae when icing was used? I don't want to put out an episode that contradicts what I've learned here, but also am super interested in the subject. 

There are a few things that I know don't coincide with ECIR. He does recommend the oral sugar test (I did ask him about it inducing laminitis in one of the seminars), and he does recommend alfalfa from what I remembered. I can try to not focus on these things because I do think so many of the other things he was teaching would be valuable to have in a podcast episode.

--
- Alicia 

September 2017, Ipswich, Massachusetts

Vinnie's Case History
Vinnie's Pictures

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Alicia,

The only time cryotherapy works in any type of laminitis is if you start it before the insult, be that bacterial products, high insulin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

CORRECTION

There is one study that showed less severe laminitis in the fructan sepsis model when icing was started at first sign of laminitis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24004323

As far as I know, no benefit has been shown in endocrinopathic laminitis when started after the horse is lame. It also has not been tested in horses with naturally occurring EMS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Alicia Harlov
 

Thank you so much! I'll see if I can get him to clarify what it might help with in the episode. If not, I can always see about editing it out so I don't put out misleading information.
--
- Alicia 

September 2017, Ipswich, Massachusetts

Vinnie's Case History
Vinnie's Pictures

LJ Friedman
 

Re the 3 causes of laminitis 
isnt grain overload a cause, after metabolic?

following the ice:
i tell people icing metabolic laminitis does nothing because its not inflammatory.   I was corrected that the itis in laminitis means inflammation 
-- what am I explaining incorrectly?
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Grain overload is in the septic/bacterial category.

There is also a fourth - toxic from Hoary Alyssum, black walnut.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

"itis" does usually mean inflammation but it is also sometimes used more generally to mean disorder. For example, transaminitis is elevation of transaminase enzymes. However, it is only fairly recently that it was understood that the significant inflammatory component seen in other types of laminitis is not present in endocrinopathic laminitis. Degenerative arthritis has many parallels. It is not primarily an inflammatory  condition like gout or rheumatoid arthritis, but there is an inflammatory component to it during flare ups. Inflammation is a clean up reaction to tissue damage of any type.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Tanna
 

Dr K. 

Would upper respiratory infections, vaccine reactions and/or feed allergies fall into the septic/bacterial category as well?

I have two times now seen blood in the white line of my mare's hooves from prior events. She very recently tested 2.02 ulU/mL insulin and prior to that approx 13.0. I don't think her incidents are metabolic/endocrinopathic in nature but I'm trying to understand what is causing the insults so that I can try and prevent them in the future. 😣

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Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Vaccine reactions aren't really septic but they can sometimes cause laminitis but that's mostly in EMS horses.

The most common cause of blood in the white line is the toes are too long -  mechanical tearing.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001