Lavinia - new mark-ups request


K Hanneson
 

Hi Lavinia,
I'm looking for some new mark-ups for Magni.  Last trim was Dec 3, next one Jan 14.
I've updated photos and rads in my album.
Many thanks!

Happy holidays to everyone!
--
Kathy H in ON 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Magni

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266135


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for the heads-up. I can get those for end of next week.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


K Hanneson
 

Hi Lavinia, any chance for these mark-ups this week?  My farrier is coming on Friday morning, January 14.
I did some rasping (my amateur attempt, I'm sure I didn't go as far as you would suggest) but something more specific for the farrier visit would be helpful and much appreciated.
Thank you! 
--
Kathy H in ON 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Magni

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266135


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Got it, Kathy.

Will have those to you in time for the farrier visit.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Kathy,

I've added mark-ups to Magni's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266135&p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0

Biggest issues are that the toes need to be backed up to get the breakover set closer to the tip of the frog and the heels are underrun.  The two things commonly go hand-in-hand. There are mild lateral flares on all four feet and the frogs are somewhat elongated, which is masking the fact that the toes have run ahead of where they need to be. This configuration then self-perpetuates as with every step, the heels get driven forward.\. Need to take the toes back thru what appears to be thee white line - or thru that built up ridge of material that is covering the white line. This is not toe callous. Only trim off ragged bits of frog, if needed, leaving s much calloused frog in place as possible. You don't want to expose any of the waxy, immature frog underneath. Check the medio-lateral balance of each foot by measuring both collateral groove depths then comparing them -  you want both to be the same depth, and not less than 1" at their deepest point near the back of the foot. The goal is to have the depth at 3/4" near the apex of the frog. Less than this means DO NOT remove anything as there is already too little material. See here for more:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/Balance.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/Breakover.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/FrogTrim.html

LF dorsal: Green line follows the angle of the healthier attachments coming in under the coronary band toward the ground. The blue area is the remaining flared material- rasp it inward to match the angle from above, then finish with a bevel at ground level so that the weaker attached wall material isn't involved in weight bearing.

LF lateral: Green line follows the angle of the new growth above - which isn't really visible due to the heavy hair obscuring the coronary band but is indicated by the dishing of the dorsal wall. This isn't a trim line, just a visual for where the dorsal wall will eventually be aligned when the entire hoof capsule stands up straighter and more fully under the bony column. Orange line shows where the heels should be located, again, once they stand up straighter. Blue area is where the toe needs to be backed up between 10 and 2.

LF sole: Solid blue line is where to bring the toe back/walls in to, with the hashed areas all the material that needs to be removed. Finish with a bevel all around. The wall on the medial side is intentionally left untouched as that isn't flared so doesn't need to be pulled inward. Take the walls in the heel buttresses completely out of weight bearing, allowing the bar to be the highest point there. See figures 2 and 3 here:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

Lightly ramp the bars (yellow hashes) up to the buttresses but don't remove any height from them once you get to the wall-bar juncture. Ramp the heel buttresses behind the wall-bar juncture back toward the heel bulbs (orange hashes). Nothing off the sole.

RF dorsal: Same idea as the LF, with the blue area the remaining slight flare.

RF lateral: Follow the discussion for the LF. Notice that this one isn't as dished as the LF is.

RF sole: Same as the LF.

LH dorsal: Again, a bit of lateral flare to bring in.

LH lateral: Same idea as the fronts, tho the toe isn't as far forward.

LH sole: Blue solid line is where to pull the toe back to and the lateral wall flare inward to. Leave the heels alone except to add a ramp to the backs of them to help ease landings and encourage them to stand up a bit more. Preserve all the vertical height there is.

RH dorsal: Same ideas the LH.

RH lateral: Again, pull in the blue area. Green and orange lines are visual markers, not trim lines.

RH sole: Same as the other three.

If you have less than 1" depth to the collateral grooves at their deepest points and/or less than 3/4" near the apex of the frog, Magni should be wearing padded boots to protect his soles. Work to produce consistent heel-first landings on whatever footing he is on as toe-first is never what you want to see.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


K Hanneson
 

Hi Lavinia, thank you for the mark-ups.  
I haven't replied for a few days since I am trying to figure all this out and relate it all to what is on the hoofrehab site, and find my way through a general state of confusion :)

My farrier was in agreement with bringing back the toes and getting the heels more upright, however, questioned the approach on the lateral flairs.  Is your intention to completely remove the weight-bearing from the lateral walls?  He didn't think this was a good idea (going by the blue mark-up lines) as it would put too much pressure on the sole which is already thin.  He measured the collateral grooves at about half of what you are suggesting.  I know there has been a lot of discussion here about this, which I have tried to review.  I'm wondering if this is a communication issue with my farrier or philosophical divide?  Do you have any photos of what you're asking re taking off the flares and beveling?

And, after reading the hoofrehab.com/Balance website, I'm wondering about the cause-and-effect relationship between the trim and Magni's tendency to be toe-out in the front.   In various conversations with my farrier, his general approach is that the feet reflect what is going on in the rest of the body and if the lateral walls are longer, it's because of muscle restrictions or whatever is going on higher up in the pectorals/shoulders that is causing him to be toe-out.  Would you think that removing weight bearing from the lateral walls would help his legs to straighten out?  

I'm also wondering if you could clarify when you said: "Need to take the toes back thru what appears to be the white line - or thru that built up ridge of material that is covering the white line. This is not toe callous."  Can you explain what is and isn't toe callous?

I'm sure I have many more questions but I'll start here.  Thanks for any further clarification and guidance!
 
--
Kathy H in ON 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Magni

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266135


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Kathy,

Not Lavinia here, but if you remove the lateral walls you will want to make sure Magni is in padded boots.  It's a bit tricky because the flared walls will self-perpetuate unless they are removed from weight-bearing.  Sometimes removal makes horses more comfortable because painful tearing that is causing the flaring goes away.  Other times it can make horses more uncomfortable because those lateral flares do provide some support and their loss puts more weight on the soles and if especially if soles are thin they can become more tender.  One approach is to get the toes back to where they need to be first, then be more aggressive with the flares in later trims.  And use EVA foam pads in boots to support the horse in growing out flares.  The first time I removed enormous flares on my horse he had no obvious change in comfort.  His hoof walls were so disconnected all the way up to the coronary band that his soles were pancake flat and the flares weren't supporting him at all, so their full removal didn't make his feet more sore.  Later, with less prominent flares that probably were helping to support his thin soles, I have noticed discomfort with their removal, but 12mm foam pads in boots alleviated most of it.

In my limited personal experience, unbalanced hooves should be shaped to be as close to balanced as possible so that they don't worsen the anatomical issues higher up.  If the balance is really poor and has been for a long time, then make this a gradual process.  If the horse is uncomfortable when you do this, then you know you balanced the hooves too much and you can be less aggressive at the next trim.  Trimmers have a tendency to inadvertently leave one wall higher (the flared wall is the one left longer), which can cause an imbalance related to trim that can in turn can affect anatomy higher up.  It's hard to know which came first, the crooked anatomy or the imbalanced trim.  I oversee the trimming of my boarder's horse and he is pigeon-toed in the front and has been all his life.  This could be his natural anatomy, or it could be due to poor trimming when he was growing.  Either way, it is permanent, but we still try to even out his fronts as much as possible each trim because if we don't the pigeon-toeing gets more pronounced.

Because Magni's toes are long, what appears to be protruding sole callous is just laminar wedge build-up, which is a less dense disorganized material that fills in the gap between the corium (live tissue) surrounding the coffin bone, and the hoof wall when toes are too far forward or flared.  Laminar wedge 'looks' like sole but true sole and the sole callous don't go forward more than a few mm's past the point where the coffin bone tip projects to the ground, which is where toe breakover is supposed to start.  If you have xrays it's really easy to see where that is, but in hoof photos it takes an experienced eye to determine where that should be.  Lavinia has marked your hoof photos where breakover should start at the toe.  It looks like you have to file through what appears to be whiteline (lamellae) and sole (laminar wedge) to correctly place breakover, but you actually only filing into the laminar wedge, which is just junky fill.  Laminar wedge grows out with the hoof if you keep toes where they need to be.

I am open to any corrections Lavinia has of the above.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album