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Magnesium supplementing
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Thanks Sherry,. My hay supplier does testing, prior to selling, each field. Would you retest what you buy? And without enough room to store more than, say, six months, would you test again when new bales brought in?
-- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K |
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-- Lorna and Allison, I have been following your discussion and wondering how you know what to add? There is so much info on this group site and I am loosing track of what I have read and where. Like I saw a place where a LeAnne had tested and reported a whole bunch of Canadian feed products also, because K is the IR horse but my old girl J is also now PPID, tho I have been expecting and testing her off and over the past eight years. Yikes! My head spinning again! Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K |
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Lorna, where are you buying individual vitamins? I’m aware of being able to find individual vitamins such as B and E, but what about the rest? What is your cost per day per horse, and what is your savings doing it that way, vs. getting a custom blend done?
-- Allison in Ontario 2020 Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 |
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I love Mad Barn products, and I agree with Scott's vision (listen to his Humble Hoof podcasts to hear about why he's in this business). It is a business I want to support. I also highly recommend Mad Barn at every opportunity! :) But I do recall a thread recently about some products a "Mad Barn nutritionist" (not Scott) had been recommending for one of our member's hay balancing and how it got some criticism from Dr Kellon.
Not everyone is in the same place for learning to supplement their hay. Mixing individual minerals and such is IMO really for the advanced, or the exceptionally confident and careful. When someone just joins the group, keeping things simple will be less overwhelming. That's why I always push to have an ECIR approved hay balancer help our newest members initially, and if someone is interested to learn the how's (and the why's) to do this for themselves I strongly recommend taking the NRC Plus course. If you take the NRC Plus course, then I think you have a sound basis for making decisions about what to supplement; if not though, you are at the mercy of whatever is recommended to you, without knowing how to evaluate it for yourself. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album |
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Kirsten i will go back to see if I can find that thread! I'm always seeking knowledge.
I think perhaps I'm forgetting that I've learned a lot about feed and hay balancing in the last year. Thus, when I approach my feed and supplement shopping, I already know what I need and am scrutinizing every label and dissecting it. There are many feeds, supplements and ration balancers that sound great but are really not great at filling in the gaps. Equinety comes to mind lol I have never called a feed company and asked "what do I need". I always know what I need ahead of time and then ask "what do you have that fits my needs". The madbarn online profile is great for showing you what your hay is lacking in. It makes it easy to do your research, find some options (madbarn products and a wide variety of other manufacturers) available to you and then plug in some scenarios and see how it pans out. I cannot see the harm in that! -- Allison in Ontario 2020 Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 |
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Hi Allison,
What vitamins are you looking for? It's been a long time since I did a cost comparison. Once I realized the savings making my own mix I got right on it. Sorry,but I'm not sure I still have the numbers. But others here, and over on Horsekeeping....have you joined our sister group?.....will be able to chime in,with their numbers. Laurie,( a member here years ago,)and Dr. Kellon balanced for me initially, and I learned all I could, plus in an ongoing fashion from list members,and from Dr. Kellon's NRCPlus course,as I said earlier. I should add,though,that this was back when the earth was cooling,and mentioning a custom mix to a company got me the 'horns -growing -out- of -head look'. And purchasing from the US became more and more cost prohibitive. It was equally difficult getting my hands on individual minerals.....it was always explained to me by ,ahem,nutritionists that dical.phosphate was what I wanted, not the monosodium phosphate I was asking for. There is definitely more choice up here in the frozen North now,wrt custom mixes. But there will always(I think it's safe to say that) be a savings found by doing a custom mix ourselves,just by definition. Sorry not to be more help wrt $$$. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Also,Allison,here's a recent post from Nancy, talking a bit about vitamins,which might be helpful.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/258082?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,vitamins,100,2,0,78505108 -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Lorna, I think if you did a more up to date calculation of "custom" vs DIY you might be surprised at the numbers. I actually have done so and have found that any savings I might have seen by doing it all myself was mitigated by the time and expense of assembling all the individual ingredients needed. And the savings weren't more than a couple of dollars a month at best.
I really don't care how anyone does their supplementing. I just don't want to see someone scared off of getting a custom mix done just because they think the cost is ridiculous or they are somehow going to get scammed by a feed company. Neither have been my experience. -- Allison in Ontario 2020 Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 |
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Hi Allison, You said you, " have found that any savings I might have seen by doing it all myself was mitigated by the time and expense of assembling all the individual ingredients needed." That's a different story. I never include my time in any of these endeavours. That's where the savings come in. Once the ingredients are sourced, though, the heavy lifting is done. After a number of batches have been mixed,one gets pretty good at the task. You said,"I just don't want to see someone scared off of getting a custom mix done just because they think the cost is ridiculous or they are somehow going to get scammed by a feed company." I certainly hope no one thinks I believe either of the above. Never crossed my mind. I've talked to Scott numerous times.He is terrific, and we are so fortunate that he has run with the ball. He knows whereof he speaks,and is open to making changes to his recipes, if the changes would help out metabolic horses. He's one of our Benefactors of the ECIR No Laminitis ! Conferences. https://www.ecirhorse.org/ The bonus is that the nutritional management of our metabolic horses, is also excellent for any horse , to provide optimal health. As soon as more owners catch on to this,the sooner the market will expand ,to make it easier to find products which we know to horses really need. For optimal health. Baby steps. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Kandace, If you have a copy for the report that goes with the hay that you are buying you can have your vitamin and minerals balanced to that. Not every supplier does hay testing.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Susan
Hi Allison,
I took Dr. Kellon's NRC Plus course in the summer. Since then I've been balancing my own minerals. My current cost per horse to balance minerals to their hay is 0.20 (Can) per day per horse for a 525kg horse. That includes copper, zinc, magnesium, calcium, salt and a tiny bit of phosphorous. I buy the copper, zinc, phosphorous and magnesium from Mad Barn as individual ingredients. The cost depends upon what work load your horse is at - which is correlated to how much hay you feed. My horses are currently at an average maintenance level. In the summer when they were working harder (moderate work load) it was costing me about 50 cents a day and I had to add a small amount of manganese. That cost does not include the additional Vit E (with selenium ) that I feed them (also from Mad Barn). Since selenium is required in such small amounts and you can feed too much selenium, I decided to just buy the Vit E that already had selenium mixed in. The Vit E with selenium is by far the most expensive part at 56 cents/day. I like the flexibility of mixing my own because the ratios will change with a change in the work load. That allows me to mix one blend for a horse that's working hard and another for a young horse that hasn't started training yet. -- Susan in BC 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Copper%20and%20Ella |
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Susan
I forgot to say that my older IR horse also needs a tighter Fe:Cu:Zn:Mn ratio than my young healthy horse. If you have to add more Cu, Zn and Mn to bring the Fe ratio down it will increase the cost of your minerals. The 0.50 /day was for my IR horse in moderate work.
-- Susan in BC 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Copper%20and%20Ella |
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It's worth mentioning,for those who don't know,that once we sign up for a course with Dr. Kellon,we visit future runs of that course.
And when one completes the NRCPlus course, the NRCPlus Grads course becomes available. It is really worthwhile. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Cindy Giovanetti
How do I get in the current class? I was enrolled in the previous class, but wasn’t the best student.
Cindy
-- Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas On ECIR protocol since 2/19 https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/ History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125 |
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I meant to say the NRCPlus Grads group, not course .
-- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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llkeach50
It is my experience than a custom mix is WAY more expensive than assembling my own minerals. I add, copper, zinc,biotin, sometimes manganese, flax, iodine, selenium, salt, vit. E gel caps. For four horses this costs about $40 a month. A custom mix would be over $100 a month. It takes me five minutes every two weeks to assemble the mix. I add the salt, flax, selenium, iodine, vit. e separately. It really takes no time at all.
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llkeach50
I forgot the magnesium, I also add that separately.
Linda K. NY 2003 |
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I guess it's really impossible to accurately compare our supplement costs since we are not all feeding the same hay, therefore are comparing apples to oranges. For example, to balance my hay that is high in iron, my individual cost for copper per day is $0.36, and zinc is $0.59. I'm already at $1/day just for those two things. I would love to be able to only spend $10/month on my one horse for his vit/min balancing, but with my current hay supply, that's not feasible.
-- Allison in Ontario 2020 Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 |
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Gosh,Allison,those prices sound really high to me.
I guess the question is where are you buying your copper sulphate? Or is it poly copper ? And where are you sourcing it? And your zinc sulphate? Or poly ? Rhetorical. My feed store is a good source for many of my minerals.They get theirs from Pestell Minerals, which supplies supplement companies,too. For the majors, I'm fortunate because the feed store will break a 50-pound bag open and sell 10 pounds ( or whatever I need) at a time. Same for mag ox. In the old days it was difficult to buy individual minerals. I was told more than once that horse owners didn't know enough to be able to put mixes together for their ponies. But no one is trying to convince anyone to make their own mix,as opposed to buying a custom mix. You just do what you can, and are comfortable with. I just like to save every penny I can,without having a negative effect on my boys. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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