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Need More Protein
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hmmatthews2003@...
So good news/bad news on my hay analysis. The good news is that ESC and starch are both great. Bad news is that protein is very low. Here's a snap of the full analysis:
So, it looks like I need to find a safe way to add more protein into Remy's ration without adding more calories/sugar/starch. I currently supplement hay with Mad Barn Amino Trace+ and Elevate Vit E. I'm also going to start adding 2 tablespoons of salt. I believe everything else is nicely covered with the AT+, but the protein has me scratching my head. Any thoughts? -- ~ Heidi October 2021, New Hampshire Remy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Remy |
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Bobbie Day
Heidi I don’t see a hay analysis?
-- Bobbie and Maggie Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21) Utah, Nov 2018 ECIR Group Primary Response https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Maggie https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271156 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821 |
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hmmatthews2003@...
Oh goodness. The 'paste' doesn't seem to be cooperating. Let me type it out (all results 'as sampled'):
Crude Protein 5.5% Lysine .21% Lignin 4.1% ADF 35.8% aNDF 54.3% WSC 16.7% ESC 5.7% Starch .8% NFC 26.9% Crude Fat 1.8% Ash 3.2% Calcium .46% Phosphorus .12% Magnesium .10% Potassium .84% Sodium .008% Iron 165 ppm Zinc 15 ppm Copper 3 ppm Manganese 33 ppm Molybdenum 0.7 ppm -- ~ Heidi October 2021, New Hampshire Remy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Remy |
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Sherry Morse
You can add a JPG to your existing photo album (if you have one) or a PDF to your case history file but you can't send files or images on this group. Was this test NIR or WetChem?
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Heidi,
The Amino Trace Plus isn't a perfect match but it does improve the mineral situation. You still need to add flax. I'd go with 6 oz by weight to help with protein without adding soluble carbs. After the Amino TP, you need about 70 g of protein per 10 kg hay. The flax will give you another 40 or so. You can get that from 4.5 ounces of split dried peas (the green soup peas). Make sure you actually weigh everything. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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hmmatthews2003@...
Thank you so much for your quick feedback, Dr. Kellon. Is there another balancer that would be more suitable? As for sourcing -- any recommendations for the flax? Oil vs. ground? And for the peas, quite literally the dried peas in the grocery store?!? Who would have thought! Do I feed straight out of the package or should I soak/cook? Apologies for all of the questions, this is quite overwhelming for me.
-- ~ Heidi October 2021, New Hampshire Remy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Remy |
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I would stick with that balancer. Flax oil is rather unstable. Most people go with preground or grind the seeds themselves. There is a thread on flax on my FB page https://www.facebook.com/eleanor.kellonvmd . Yes, same peas as in the grocery store, fed straight out of the bag.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Hi Dr. Kellon,
Regarding the peas…I would give them but are the not a good idea if Pabatsa has a delicate molar? -- Laura and Pabatsa in California Feb 2012 Case History https://ecir.groups.io /g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20a nd%20Pabatsa ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Pabatsa ) Pabatsa's Photos https://ecir.groups.io /g/CaseHistory/album?id=1740 ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1740 ) |
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Heidi, you might be able to source "field" peas at a feed mill in bulk. Dr Kellon, please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's been discussed previously that they are the same thing, in whole form?
Laura, you can also soak them overnight if you're worried about dentition. -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
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You could do a pea protein isolate (make sure it's an isolate) instead, 30 grams.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Yes, field peas are OK but I wouldn't soak because depending on water characteristics the available starch may increase.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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The starch increase "may" only change with soaking, not in liquid of digestive system?
-- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020 K and J (over the rainbow bridge) and now T https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062 |
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Liquid in the digestive tract is a chemical soup of acids, bicarbonate, enzymes and bile whose job is to digest the contents. Available starch is starch that can be attacked by digestive enzymes. Resistant starch can only be fermented. That's why it is called resistant starch. It has to do with the structure of the starch. Cooking and soaking can change that.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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