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Tamramaze@...
 

My horse foundered 2 years ago. We recently tried glue on metal shoes and he’s been extremely lame since. The shoes have been removed. He won’t pick up his feet now to remove the glue. The farrier says he has more abcesses and they can’t escape the hoof because the glue is trapping them in. Some abcesses have blew out but he’s only become 30% better. He had a non fasting insulin test in the spring and he was normal at 7. This is his current diet. 

 

9am:

1/2lb M30

1lb soaked plain beet pulp

Sprinkle of Kalm n Easy (like, 1/8 cup if that)

Mixed with 1gram bute powder

1/2 scoop Insulin Wise

 

2pm:

1lb soaked beet pulp served over 1/2lb Safe Starch forage

Sprinkle of Kalm n Easy

1/2 scoop Farriers Formula Double Strength

 

6pm:

1/4lb M30

1/2lb lb soaked plain beet pulp served over 1/2lb Tribute Safe Starch forage 

 

10pm:

1/2lb M30

1lb soaked beet pulp

Sprinkle Kalm n Easy

1/2 scoop Insulin Wise

1/2c Farriers Formula Double Strength

1 gram bute powder 

One pump Osteo Max

 

Hay - slow feed mixture of Tribute Safe Starch forage and Standlee Timothy from PortaGrazer all day

(Never finishes it)

Free choice crap hay he barely touches 

 

In the past 2 months,  has only been in a field muzzled for 3 hours max with his friends either 9a-noon or 7-10p. Sometimes the limp gets worse. Sometimes it gets better. No rhyme or reason to it. No pulse. Hooves remain cool always. 

 

He is otherwise turned out in a dry lot all day and night and appears performance-horse fit as a fiddle. Can just barely see his ribs. Not an ounce of fat on him.



im thinking he has more abcesses that have yet to blow is the reason he’s lame 

--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Sherry Morse
 




Tamramaze@...
 


-- thanks so much. His insulin was tested and it was good. So I feel like he has more abcessing. Would the emergency diet be necessary in this case  if his pain is abcesses ?
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Tamramaze@...
 

ACTH WAS 2.9 the labs were done in may. So if there is no safe commercial feed do you feed loose minerals to have well balanced diet ?
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Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Tamramaze@...
 

Also is the farriers formula ok
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Sherry Morse
 

What was his last insulin level (actual number) and was the test done fasting or with hay in front of him?
--

Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response

PA 2014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891

 


Tamramaze@...
 

Not fasting 7.4
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Sherry Morse
 

Do you have the reference ranges for both ACTH and insulin?
--

Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response

PA 2014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891

 


Tamramaze@...
 

ACTH was 2.0-10.0
Insulin 5.0-36.0
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Tamramaze@...
 

How much devils claw do I feed and is farriers formula ok
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


celestinefarm
 

Tamra,
There are good reasons why the group asks you to fill out a health history and provide other details. Details make the difference in a horse's recovery and without them, the mods and others here cannot answer your questions with any kind of science or fact based answer. Farrier's Formula is safe for IR horses but whether it actually meets your horse's needs or is going to do anything to provide a recovery is a question because we don't have any details from you other than your original post.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tamra,

Based on your test results your horse is neither IR nor PPID which points to your issues being mechanical in nature.  Filling out a full case history and posting trim and any x-ray pictures would enable us to help you further.  If he is not IR or PPID this discussion would be moved to the Horsekeeping sub-group as we try to keep this list for PPID/IR discussions.

Having said that - Devil's claw dosage varies depending on what product you get.  If you get Phyto-Quench pellets (https://www.uckele.com/phyto-quench-pellet.html) you can use as much as a double dose twice a day if needed.

The Farrier's Formula is ok, but depending on why you're feeding it there are probably cheaper alternatives that will provide more of whatever vitamins/minerals you're looking to add in.  That's why we recommend hay testing and balancing to the test results.




 

Interesting!  I used to use FF but discontinued it due to the added iron.  There is no evidence that iron is added to FF now so I wonder if they changed the formulation.  It did not help with the issues we were having with hoof quality although matching my mineral mix more closely to the needs of my hay did make a difference.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Tamramaze@...
 


-- working on the form  Should I get the plain photoquench or photoquench plus devil claw
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Tamramaze@...
 

And do I need to do hay testing if he’s not IR and get moved to the other group
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


Sherry Morse
 

You need the Phytoquench plus Devil's Claw if you want to use that for pain.




Sherry Morse
 

We recommend hay testing and balancing to the hay for all horses, not just IR or PPID ones.




Tamramaze@...
 

The photoquench arrived. With The bute weaning process do I also feed photoquench while he’s weaning off of it or start when he’s completely off bute
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022


 

HiTamra,
Hi found this in my notes and the mention of a coupon leads me to believe it was copied from a post by Dr. Kellon.  This suggests you can start the PQ now and continue with the bute taper.  If someone else has a different changeover protocol, please advise.

 I would order her some Phyto-Quench pellets https://uckele.com/phyto-quench-pellet.html [use coupon code ECIR] and once you start that begin to taper off the bute - 1.5 g for 2 days, 1 g for 2 days, 0.5 g for 2 days.”
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Tamramaze@...
 

My horse won’t eat the photoquench any tips ?
--
Tamra Williamson
lexington KY
2022